I do have this little survey that was signed by 1000 people in Lynn Valley. It is 2 years out of date, however I will be out there again to get more signatures.
We Lynn Valley-ites DO NOT WANT highrises and I have a new team and we are going to fight!
The traffic in Lynn Valley is ridiculous. I live on Draycott Road, right behind the Garden Centre. I cannot turn left most times. I have to turn right on Lynn Valley Road and skirt my direction. The intersection at Lynn Valley Road and Mountain Highway is a total disaster. Who are the DNV Planners who supposedly figured this out??
It is most especially dangerous for pedestrians. Drivers look left for vehicular traffic when they have a red light, and they don't realize that the pedestrians have the walk sign and they sail through the red light turning right. Drivers don't look to the right for pedestrians -- who have the WALK sign.
Lynn Valley is a mess and the idea of further densification is ridiculous.
Saturday, December 26, 2009
No Way Lynn Valley Densifies Further
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145 opinions/comments:
I live in Lynn Valley and a medium height high rise wouldn't bother me.
I frequently shop at Irly Building Centre, and have never had a problem turning left off of Draycott.
And traffic? My God. There is nowhere in North Vancouver that has enough traffic to worry about.
Barry R. is right. This is a non-issue.
However, it probably can't hurt the DNV to look into traffic calming tools and techniques to enhance the pedestrian experience in the area. Engineers and planners in the City of Vancouver actually earn their salaries by doing this all the time. Just look at the walkability that has been created in highrise-intense neighbourhoods such as Yaletown, Downtown South, and Coal Harbour.
At the least the City of North Van is trying to rectify the situation in Lower Lonsdale with traffic calming (it's also a mess, like Lynn Valley).
But highrises or no highrises has nothing to do with traffic. If anything, they can reduce traffic by encouraging more transit-intensive, pedestrian-intensive lifestyles.
I've never had problems turning left off Draycott. I find the intersection at Mountain Highway and Lynn Valley Road a breeze. Wendy, if you are a poor driver with no confidence in your skills (you yourself have posted that you seldom drive), don't try to force the rest of us to your level.
I'd have a little more faith in Wendy if this wasn't her exact same response to every densification proposal. Berkley Road, Selynn, Lynn Valley. It's outrageous to even think of adding people to those areas, what with the lack of public consultation and L.A. style traffic plaguing them.
In reality Wendy, densifying Lynn Valley with high rises would actually help with your traffic problem. North Van is going to grow. Your choice is between building further up the mountain with large, energy wasting family housing, or densifying Lynn Valley. Further sprawl would make your traffic problem worse, as residents with little retail nearby and poor transit options will definitely drive. While high rise residents would have access to retail and services closeby, as well as better transit options (hopefully with the GVRD future plan for Lynn Valley as a transit hub Rapid Transit can be integrated in at some point.) and many would not own cars or would use them less. So your choices are less traffic and a more livable Lynn Valley at the cost of some high rises (we're not talking Shangri-La okay, this is nothing to freak out about) or more sprawl and an increasingly worse traffic situation.
Not to mention that your not being able to turn left on a busy 4 lane street isn't exactly an unexpected tragedy. You live on a small street Wendy, that's the problem, not some density bogeyman. You can't possibly expect to thin out the traffic on Lynn Valley Road enough for you to have no left turn wait. And drivers not looking for pedestrians? Once again, densification reduces car use. On the other hand, it has absolutely no effect either way on stupid reckless drivers, which sounds like your real problem here.
You just can't stand densification no matter the situation. So you find complaints with the area, and pretend they are the result of density. You're just arguing in bad faith.
Non-issue, Wendy. With all the places you could have chosen to live did you purposely move to that complex just so you could find more to gripe about? Grow up, girl!
Traffic? What traffic?
I live in Lynn Valley. I drive my car in Lynn Valley. Who on earth are you people to say that I am incorrect?
If you supposed Lynn Valley-ites are happy with the traffic and pollution in our community, perhaps you are onboard with the Liberal-based 17 percent voter-turnout to municipal elections.
My directive is to get more people to vote against you $$$ mongers who only care about developers and the $$ they put in their pockets and then go away.
There is a simple solution - a slightly elongated traffic circle that encompasses Lynn Valley Road, Mountain Highway, and Draycott!
If you live in Lynn Valley and drive in Lynn Valley - time to sell your car and walk everywhere.
Wendy, who are you to say the other posters are incorrect? Your arrogance is repugnant.
I work in Lynn Valley and live in central Lonsdale, the traffic in Lynn Valley is a non-issue, have you ever tried driving in Vancouver?
Wendy sez:
"I live in Lynn Valley. I drive my car in Lynn Valley. Who on earth are you people to say that I am incorrect?"
Who the hell are you Wendy, to say that everyone else here, most if not all from North Vancouver, don't have their own valid personal opinions on the issue?
Will this be your attitude as an elected Councillor? i.e. "Who on earth are you voters to say I that I am incorrect?"
Dictator-wannabe!
Barry's got the right idea. Not sure if a traffic circle is ideal or not, but definitely a study of traffic patterns and street configurations could ease traffic (which in all the times I've driven to work, family or shopping in Lynn Valley I never had problems with). You still haven't shown any clear argument against densifying Lynn Valley.
And your response is astonishing. You think we support density because we stand to profit from development? I assure you that I personally will have no monetary benefit from development. I support it in order to make the community better.
Additionally, why would you consider it worse for developers to make money off Lynn Valley high rise housing than on developing single family housing? Either way someone makes money. Does it really matter who?
Finally, you could really stand to step back and see how inane your arguments are. Many of us also live or drive in Lynn Valley. One person's experience is not an overriding opinion. If I claim that White Spot always has horrendously long lines, and other people tell me that in their experience they've had short waits, I cannot reasonably claim that since I eat at White Spot they can't say I am wrong. We're comparing opinions. It seems most people don't have issues with Lynn Valley traffic. You do. That doesn't mean other people are liars, just that they've had different experiences.
Wendy won't run again. She has declared herself an "activist" as all perennial loser candidates do.
When they were building the library complex they re-routed a lot of buses that used Ross Road for their stops. I had hoped they'd be permanently using East 27th for buses as it gives great access to the mall and effectively DOES serve as a 'ring road' with LV Road and Mountain Highway.
Instead they moved all the buses to the strip outside the library which creates unnecessary congestion on LV Road.
Personal pet peeve: there are two concrete pullouts in front of the library - both are SUPPOSED to be reserved for buses but you routinely have people parking in the first one! Time for some aggressive ticketing and towing I think!
(On Wendy's pet peeve at Mountain Highway and Draycott I seldom have trouble exiting that cul-de-sac when leaving the TD Bank - only once or twice in two years has it been an issue)
"I assume that most people who live in the valley work on the shore"
Uh nope - DNV has detailed stats on this with the main change in the last 10 years being a small shift from downtown to North Burnaby & Coquitlam. Other than those who work from home at most 25% of us are employed here.
(By the way, 'work from home' is ill-defined - under the present District definition it includes contractors who work all over the Lower Mainland who have a home office for sending out their invoices. As opposed to those accountants, engineers, etc. who DO work from home)
While I'm not a disinterested party (I employ people in my store) this is why I care about having a healthy business environment in North Vancouver - all that talk about "sustainability" doesn't mean much if by 2030 we're strictly a bedroom community and everybody has to commute because we've chased all the commercial and industrial sector away!
Lynn Valley has had it's fair share of densification. Is it not time for other areas like Seymour to take on some of the densification burden that blog consensus concludes is inevitable? The District has had almost zero population growth in recent years but, you wouldn't think so when you look around Lynn Valley because it seems we have taken on most of the density growth.
John, you must first decide what is going to be your 'city centre'. The Lynn Valley/Mountain Highway already seems to be that centre, so why not maintain that? It looks to be the logical location for higher density, pedestrian oriented development. A mix of retail, office and residences would help to achieve that end and, if Translink started providing decent service, the area could see reduced traffic.
John Sharpe has hit the nail on the head -- move it to Seymour. Well...this WILL NOT happen because the Seymour Community Association, headed by Eric Godot Andersen and his team are not pro-development as is the Lynn Valley Community Association, who are supposed to be looking after our best interests.
The prime directive of DNV Council is to promote livability in our community. The 1000 people who signed the petition against highrises when the traffic problems and lack of good public transit in the area are getting worse and worse speak volumes for our community.
I will be out and about and by the time I present this petition to Council I am sure it will take notice of the wishes of their electorate.
Wendy, how about addressing the very valid points raised in this thread? Address them now or in front of an audience come election time.
For you new bloggers I would like to let you know what the petition said:
TO THE MAYOR AND COUNCILLORS OF THE DISTRICT OF NORTH VANCOUVER
We the undersigned are opposed to the construction of highrises in Lynn Valley. We are also opposed to the increase in parking capacity of the Lynn Valley Centre since this will encourage more car traffic and diminish the air quality.
What is your supporting data for the statements in your petition, Wendy? I only see opinion and not fact. Also, what anon 4:21 PM said. Stop evading the posts directed to you.
I don't evade anything. Ask me a question and I will answer. Here we go again.
Then reply to the counter arguments posted above. Show us that you know what you're talking about. All you do is make statements but display very little knowledge of what you are objecting to. Impress us.
What a load of dubbletock. Please give me a real question, not crap, and I will answer.
Okay. I'll make it easy for you. Can you provide us with any data that supports the statements you've made in your original post? Can you tell us why we should listen to you and not the well thought out posts by kstar_3_5 made on Saturday, December 26, 2009 1:31:00 PM and Sunday, December 27, 2009 2:59:00 AM. Can you offer a reasoned response to these two posts? This should be enough to get you started. Can you respond to these?
Re: "data for the statements"
It is a petition. It is a statement of support not an argument for one thing or another.
It merely says, "We the undersigned are opposed to the construction of highrises in Lynn Valley. We are also opposed to the increase in parking capacity of the Lynn Valley Centre since this will encourage more car traffic and diminish the air quality."
Are you looking for proof that more cars will produce more pollution? This crowd of Anons who pick on the mentally ill are sick creeps.
Response to 1:31
I have lived in Lynn Valley since 1995. I have seen the traffic at least triple during this time. You bloggers who say it hasn't must be living on another planet.
Part of the Bosa plan for densification is 1600 underground parking spots. For some reason they are trying to make it more "eco friendly" by having the spots underground. Do they think we Lynn Valley-ites are idiots? I think not. It will simply encourage more traffic and pollution into our community.
By way of example, 1000 residents have signed the petition. End of argument.
2:59
I have no response. We obviously have differing opinions. I see cars totally messed up in the parking lot at the Lynn Valley Mall. I see an intersection (Mountain Highway and Lynn Valley Road) a total disaster. I walk through this intersection every day.
I see what I see. I do not make this stuff up.
Agreed with 7:43. You still haven't responded to my questions, but rather to questions I never posed. I completely agree with your opposition to massive new parking lots, which don't serve the community or environment. However, you still haven't given me a good response on why density specifically would be bad for Lynn Valley, which was your original post.
Instead you have so far accused me of being in cahoots somehow with developers ("$$$ mongers who care only about developers") which I found incredibly insulting. You've also said that you haven't made up traffic increase in Lynn Valley, something no one here has claimed. And your 1:56 post makes little sense. I haven't claimed you are making up traffic problems. You live by that intersection, you certainly have unique insight into it. However, that does not make you the final authority on the subject. My trips to work or the mall were not subject to the same gridlock and recklessness you claim, that doesn't mean either of us had made it up. Ad Hominem attacks and Straw Man responses seem to be your main employ so far, and I'm finding it extremely frustrating trying to respond to you when you make up claims of your opponents. You don't respond to my questions about your original subject, density, and try to claim I'm accusing you of making up traffic problems.
Finally, it should be obvious I'm not being anonymous here. You can respond to me by my ID Wendy, as I do you. And Ban the Anons, 7:43 had a valid point, they were in no way picking on anyone. Some of the anons in this thread, and certainly in other threads have done so. 7:43 was asking (if I'm reading this right, if not sorry) if Wendy could support her inferred claim that density would make Lynn Valley worse. She made a statement that should be subject to analysis. Opposition to density is only fair so long as you can actually prove your claims that it will have a negative impact.
You only have to look at who was on council when the land was sold to the developer, both mayors(s) and councilors, to see and understand why both the district has no active interest in following the OCP ( it always a developers tools to carve the previously allocated land up) adn why any type of new intervention is a waste of time.
The district has a plan in place that no individual outside a select group will see ever see and no amount of bellyaching will change that.
Hint - it started in 1982 and to date have been very successful.
Kstar asks no real questions but makes statements saying development is going to happen , it is only a question of where and how you manage it. We don't have to accept your premise.
Just post a direct question with no rhetoric and see if it answered. If it is as vague and silly as "Opposition to density is only fair so long as you can actually prove your claims that it will have a negative impact" then no wonder you don't get a reply.
I don't see the District as ever having a town center but lots of separate little towns like Deep Cove, Parkgate and Edgemont. The City is the center of North Vancouver.
I do believe that there are many staff and employees who post some rather angry retorts every time someone questions more density. It looks like the fiercest opposition is coming from those who will directly profit from the development. Who knows, most of it is probably coming from some PR dept in some Vancouver office.
Anon 12:14 PM,
Seems a the logical choice to whom? You? Whom are you, the SCA? Lynn Valley already is a centre. No disrespect intended towards the SCA but, they know we have reached a point to where the density needs to be spread around. If they are under the impression we want more and this is the place for it, I would say they are incorrect.
"pedestrian oriented?" give me a break. It's car oriented. The mall is hardly a place for a pedestrian. You take your life in your hands in that parking lot and anywhere near it. If it had been done according to the 1996 Referendum Lynn Valley signed on to, maybe.
So what happened to those plans, LVCA?
My point was it should be shared.
Shame on the LVCA if it to be blamed for siding with developers more often than it needs to because it's SCA neighbour will not? All the more reason for the 'wealth' to spread across the DNV.
Kstar35,
You wrote;.
"I completely agree with your opposition to massive new parking lots, which don't serve the community or environment. However, you still haven't given me a good response on why density specifically would be bad for Lynn Valley, which was your original post."
Perhaps I could answer that question; The way District planning has gone so far, density always comes with "massive new parking lots" so it follows that is why it's bad for Lynn Valley.
It's just like the Hynes Development; Many of the ideas with it are good but, no one has still come forward with any bold ideas as to how to deal with the increased traffic and internal combustion engine poisoning the local air shed causing all of us health problems. If they were really serious they would build it with no parking stalls at all except for service, emergency vehicles, etc.
There was a non-smoking development in the City that people were happy to sign on to when they purchased. Why not a no car development? Won't happen because the developers are more concerned with looking good and lining their pockets.
The codes and bylaws control the parking required. You'd have to change those first.
Great comment John Sharpe!
Anybody who says that Lynn Valley isn't car-driven is in error.
The DNV doesn't even plow the sidewalks near the "Lynn Valley Centre." Bosa certainly does nothing with the parking lot with regard to ice and snow.
An elderly woman fell last year and I called 911. I believe she fractured her hip.
And this is the group that wants to densify our community??
I copied a previous comment: "It's somewhat ironic that the photo below this post - Mollie Nye House - is today a community asset because of a community amenity contribution arising from the Balmoral/Sunrise Development. It would seem difficult to "have your cake" and "eat it too."
The cost of the refurbishing of Mollie Nye House is negligible compared to the $$$million that was made by developers in Lynn Valley.
You still haven't answered the questions put to you.
No actual question has been asked.
9:44 - I suppose development doesn't ever have to happen if you're aiming for a zero-growth DNV. Since I'm assuming growth here, I'd prefer it to be adding to already dense areas. If we can make sure that growth near Edgemont, Parkgate, and Deep Cove is adding density that is excellent.
But John what you're saying is that if we densify Parkgate, they'll build massive amounts of more parking. Why should I support spreading the density around then? Nobody (me included) is really thrilled when people get added to their backyard, but there are ways to make it better. If the District or developers are unwilling to do that maybe it is right to kill it. But wouldn't a petition first to remove the parking provisions be more constructive?
I suppose if Wendy has the same pessimistic opinion (certainly warranted) as you of density planning then her blanket opposition to density makes sense. But killing density everywhere because of bad planning just encourages low-density growth. I'd rather try and fix the bad parts of planning than kill it outright.
Wendy, which part of the DNV isn't car-driven? That's the point of density. To put retail, people, and services in one place so as to discourage car-use. It doesn't have to eliminate it, just make car trips less frequent than from a single family home in Blueridge or Upper Lonsdale.
Just because it is the way it is doesn't mean it has to continue.
The use of the car (and I own one and drive it) doesn't mean that we have to introduce more cars into our community with no benefit to we people who live here now.
The developers come in, make their mega $$ and leave we taxpayers with infrastructure costs and traffic gridlock and pollution. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?
IF YOU BUILD IT THEY WILL COME.
Alan Nixon's neighbourhood isn't densified.
Argh. I'm saying I support density and high rises in Lynn Valley because I believe they will reduce car use compared to other forms of development or housing. I completely agree that car-dependency doesn't have to continue and shouldn't. But that's why I'm supporting density!
You say we shouldn't introduce more cars. But if you're not supporting a denser North Van, then you're saying we shouldn't introduce more people either. But that is not likely to happen. The DNV is going to grow unless you make some policy changes to discourage it in which case people will decide to live in Vancouver or Burnaby or Surrey.
"Just because it is the way it is doesn't mean it has to continue."
But how are you planning to do that?! I say a denser NV and LV, possibly with the construction of some high rises. What do you support to reduce car dependency?
Lisa Muri's neighbourhood isn't densified. Neither is Janice Harris's. Mayor Walton's neighbourhood isn't densified. Doug MacKay-Dunn's neighbourhood is not densified. Robin Hicks has to drive through the Lynn Valley densification but his neighbourhood is NOT densified.
I like how the discussion seems to muddle two subjects into one, Density and Traffic are not the something.
Certainly density can bring more traffic but there are a number of factors which can increase traffic without increasing density and any good geographer/city planner knows that.
There are an innumerable # places in this world which have far greater density than Lynn Valley and they seem to get along just fine.
We cannot mix our perceived right to drive our big asses SUV's a couple blocks to Lynn Valley Center without any traffic congestion, with the discussion about density in the village.
If you choose to drive into the quagmire that is your doing.
http://www.cypressskiclub.com/node/277
Kstar_3_5 home address is:
Argyle Secondary School 1131 Frederick Road, North Vancouver, BC V7K 1J3
I moved to Lynn Valley in 1995. I see the difference in the traffic in Lynn Valley. I don't care what you say. I will be speaking up for Lynn Valley.
And my petition will be promoted.
CM
You are obviously a Liberal and an idiot.
I live in Lynn Valley. I see the crap that is the cars here. The mall is full of cars that cannot mix with each other. It is a mess.
What do you have to add to a positive anything?
So you're back to deleting people's posts again are you? Kstar_3_5 posted a very good reply and it's gone. So is mine. So you are allowed to cast insults but can't handle being called out for it? I guess I have to start copying everything to pass on to Barry Forward again.
CM
What the hell? Is it standard practice on this blog to delete unoffensive comments you disagree with? Shouldn't there be a more monitored or strict protocol for that? Seems like a one-sided conversation to me.
I recommend that you start copying your posts in preparation for Wendy's inevitable censorship. I've started doing this and repost whenever my comments are deleted. I also recommend complaining to the blog owner Barry Forward.
CM
Alright thanks. I'll do that. How come he hasn't done anything about it yet? I've seen some pretty vicious personal attacks against Wendy remain up, how come she doesn't delete those?
It's a pointless blog and CM is treating it far too seriously. If you look in the mirror you might just see another Wendy looking back at you.
hahaha. This is pretty funny. I had subscribed to the comments by e-mail and so got this post by her as the last one before she deleted them.
"You people are idiots. Ernie Crist always said that I should ignore people like you and take the high road. This is what I will do. I could delete your idiotic comments, but I won't. Freedom of speach??"
Evidently not. Does that mean our "freedom of speach" was violated?
Anon Monday, December 28, 2009 11:23:00 PM. I'm not sure how you've come to that conclusion. I don't really take this blog very seriously. What I do take seriously is when Wendy doesn't allow for people to discuss a topic and deletes their posts. That's called censorship and I do take that very seriously. The fact that Wendy is making statements without regard for the accuracy of those statements is disturbing at best. When asked to support her statements all she does is talk in circles. Kind of ironic considering her post in Barry Forward's "Merry Christmas..." thread.
CM
CM - You save comments like they are precious nuggets and post to advise people to do the same. Are you going to suggest suing Wendy next?
After a week a topic and its comments should be deleted anyway.
I save comments only once Wendy starts deleting so that I can repost my comments. If you like her actions, that's your business. I find her actions to be questionable and think that she should have her abilities on this forum limited. If she has the freedom to delete other peoples opinions, then her posts become very one sided.
CM
Blogger kstar_3_5 and CM why don't you apply for Team status with Barry Forward....Team being Contributor.
Just give Barry F an email and ask, then you can raise your own topics, and ..... administer them as well.
I might do that. It won't change the fact though that this blog suffers from a lack of healthy debate because one of the posters deletes comments she disagrees. It's still a valuable resource, but it can't be the community discussion Barry wants it to be if the discussion is conducted with the threat of random deletion.
Here's another example of Wendy not checking her facts. Eric Anderson is NOT the Chair of the Seymour Community Association - he chairs the Blueridge Community Association. The SCA is a totally different entity.
Barry has removed Wendy's posting privileges in the past when she got out of hand, and took down her post about the Riverside Terrace development, so if you think she's lily-white in is eyes, you're wrong. I think he should lock her out and throw away the key, but heck, it's not my blog.
The problem with this blog not having consistent, intelligent debate that is respected by all is that it allows posting privileges to people like Wendy who can put up all kinds of BS that is as incorrect as it is inflammatory, and no one (read Barry) is willing to establish some criteria that is adhered to on a consistent basis.
I appreciate his position on free speech and censorship, but I'm afraid he's devaluing his "little blog" by not raising the bar a little.
That's ridiculous John. I know she has that ability, but just because she can delete, doesn't mean she should. Did you find anything objectionable about those particular posts she deleted? You said I gave her flack, but there was nothing mean-spirited or offensive about my posts.
And how is not having the right to delete posts you disagree with censorship? I can't control the debate with post deletion either. That's not censorship though.
John, where have I given Wendy 'flack'? I've certainly challenged her statements and asked that she provide support for her statements (something that has yet to ever materialize). If you want to support her point of view, that's your right. I choose to challenge her and make her accountable for the nonsense she posts.
To have a contrary opinion deleted for the simple fact that she disagrees with it is well documented on this blog and, in my opinion, very wrong. Her censorship of viewpoints should be of concern to everyone that frequents this blog, whether you agree with her or not. If you agree with her censorship of opposing viewpoints, then you and I will likely never agree on much of anything.
CM
Anon 5:10 PM,Kstar35,CM,
I've re-thought the issue and you are right; I think your points all basically boil down one thing; when you post you put yourself up to all kinds of contrary points of view and if you can't deal with it then don't post. The only deletion should be for abusive or derogatory comments and perhaps even that should be left to the blog administator.
Talk to Google, you can't remove one person's ability unless you eliminate everybody's. With all the abusive libelous crap posted by the anons Barry needs have each article writer have the ability to delete comments. It would be better to ban the anons.
Barry would have to remove Wendy completely to stop her deletions.
To Anon(love the irony)7:39.
You wrote," ...It would be better to ban the anons."
Forget it.
If it weren't for the Anons and pseudonym Anons we may never have received clear and accurate facts about DCCs, annual budget and tax impact of staff salary increases, the correct identity of the chair of a community association, real building code, design and architectural information, fire department retirement benefits,
additional personal traffic experience and suggestions, inner workings of a variety of publicly supported entities and numerous other postings.
I would prefer to ban the picture posters as they can make their points as pseudoAnons. Display of their identities is unnecessary to do so.
Value of opinions is quite easily determined from all posters regardless of name. Trash and excellent posts are produced by all types of posters.
Thanks John. I've certainly seen some ugly comments on this blog, personal attacks and offensive statements. There is definitely a place for deleting those and I'd be fine giving control to the poster over that matter. I wouldn't have an issue if deletion was restricted to those posts that go out of bounds, but it hasn't been, so that's why I'm concerned.
The topic here is "No way Lynn Valley Densifies further" and Wendy says that two years ago she had collected one thousand signatures.....
Anonymous said... on Tuesday, October 02, 2007 11:31:00 PM and
http://northvancouverpolitics.blogspot.com/2007/10/ubcm-convention-and-north-vancouver.html
Written by Ernie Crist:
Since this post is about housing I need to tell you that I attended the Lynn Valley "Charrette" meeting at the Lynn Valley Community Center on Mountain Hi-way tonight.
I was there with Wendy Qureshi and John Sharpe and it was about the redevelopment of the Lynn Valley Mall.
The meeting was extremely well attended. Clearly the spectre of high-rises on top of a redesigned Lynn Valley Mall has the people of Lynn Valley worried and so they should be.
If the plans are realised it will mean 5 high-rises and underground parking stalls for 2100 cars to replace the 700 surface parking stalls in place now.
This is for the Mall alone and does not take into account up to 2000 additional cars from the people moving into the high-rises.
To make a long story short, Lynn Valley will become a traffic nightmare - even more so than it is already.
The defenders of the proposal did their damndest of course to paint the proposal in rose colours just as they did when they sold the original "Lynn Valley Pedestrian Oriented Town Center" which turned high density residential but without the promised "designated bicycle lanes" and the green spaces shown to the people on the glossy brochures.
Now they claim that densification of the Lynn Valley Core and the "Pedestrian Oriented Town Center" did not include the Mall.
This is truly curios since the height of the adjacent Lynn Valley Library and Community center, also part of the center, was reduced from 5 stories to 3 stories because "the people of Lynn Valley do not want buildings in the center of Lynn Valley higher than 46 feet or 4 stories maximum".
The spokespersons for the District went to great length to tell the people present that at this time there is no application for any new development in place and that the "Charrade" is merely meant as information on "possibilities" for the redevelopment of the Mall.
My answer to this is that if the owners of the Mall want to modernise the Mall it is entirely within their right to do so.
But the meeting notwithstanding the bafflegab was not about this.
It was about highrises in the Center of Lynn Valley and the resulting traffic chaos, albeit disguised as "sustainable" and all the other catch words in the vocabulary of run of the mill developers and their elected servants.
EC
betcha 10:53:00 PM posting won't be deleted by Wendy
The words of the late Ernie Crist are nothing but his opinion. The opinion of a career politician with a specific target audience. There is, as usual, no real expertise in what he said, just rhetoric. No different than what Wendy posted. Again, just a lot of words, but no real understanding of the reality of urban planning issues and sustainability. Yes, urban. The North Shore hasn't been 'cottage country' for decades.
CM
Right, just let CM the architect and the rest of the self proclaimed "experts" just get on with making us Yaletown on the North Shore and just let the profits gained by the elite push us around.
Oh, abolish those nasty little elections that put a majority of those opposed to the experts on Council.
I hope I can say the following with the blessing of the Crist family;
Ernie topped the polls many times during his election runs which showed his values and opinions were shared by many in the community which he served so well. He fought for many of the things cherished in the Distict that we enjoy today.
It should be pointed out that he was retired when he attended the 'Charette' and wrote the above in the 10:53 comment.
Ernie used to say, "Politics is everything and everything is politics."
John-
"Ernie topped the polls many times..."
Is this true?
Harris topped the polls in 1999 and Ernie, although he ran, failed to be elected to Council.
Harris topped the polls in 2002 and Ernie came 2nd.
In which elections did Ernie top the polls?
Anon 1:22:00 PM you seem to have the answers, why not give them to us instead of asking John.
Actually, that is incorrect. Ernie was first elected in 1979 and served continuously until his retirement in 2005. In 1999, Ernie came last after being in the upper half for several elections. People were getting a little tired of his rantings, but he redeemed himself a little, because in 2002, he ran again and came second. He retired at the end of this term.
see: http://www.civicnet.bc.ca/assets/Library/Publications/Election~Results/LG%20Election%20Results%201999.pdf
The NVD website is somewhat misleading, as it highlights the first six entries but the first one is "undervotes", not a person. Ernie definitely made the cut in 1999.
Who cares about LV all it does is rain?
Anon 1:22 PM,
Election results on the DNV website only seem to go back to 1999 after Ernie's highest poll results. I'm not sure how you might obtain the election results from before. Ernie was first elected in the late 70's until 2005. He served for longer than Harris at 25 years in total or 8 or 9 elections.
What a load of incorrect information -- which I did not delete -- from my detractors.
I did make an error regarding Eric Andersen. I apologize to all you and Eric, however it is basically the SAME TEAM!
I have a suggestion regarding your accusations of my continual deletion of comments on my post!!! Ask Barry Forward. He will tell you the facts and they are that I have deleted very few comments on my posts, even personal attacks.
Barry, please give them any information they want regarding anything I say or delete on my posts or they will win and the blog will LOSE!
Re Ernie. No debate that he ran and served on council for many years.
When a politician "tops the polls" that means he/she garnered more votes than any of his/her opponents.
John's assertion that Ernie "topped the polls many times" seems to be presented as a fact.
I'm wondering if it is true or not. If so, what elections?
I presented the quote of Ernie Crist, from within NorthVancouverPolitics.com, as a means of turning attention back towards the topic at hand, that is densification surrounding Lynn Valley Mall area from the time of 2007. Wendy said she had a list. EC wrote upon the subject from 2007.
Now that we have a snapshot in time of where the mall used to be, can we come to a consensus on where we are now and what the future holds for us, and that of our immediate community.
Do we want to see the parking tripled at LVC, and highrises too?
I believe after re-reading many of these comments it is that they post under inane "pseudo" IDs. CM said on an earlier thread that he/she "wasn't anonymous -- I'm CM."
Well guess what pal, you are anonymous. And no matter what you say I will not delete your comments again. You will have to deal with Barry Forward for that.
Happy New Year and thanks John Sharpe for writing what is really going on here.
Avast ye Liberals!!
84 comments. Hmmm! Wendy obviously created some interest with her post.
On the question whether or not comments have been deleted, I would simply say that this topic was posted by Wendy Q. and that gives her the right to moderate it however she pleases. However with 84 comments this post speaks for itself.
If you would like to post a main topic yourself and moderate it (which is how it works here), you can take the lead simply by asking to be added as a member by sending an email to discussion@northvancouverpolitics.com
Happy New Year all!
Wendy commenting on CM.
CM has wisely protected his/her privacy but identified him/herself so that comments made by CM can be correlated, recalled and attributed to CM much like a picture poster.
That is the difference between the pseudonym posters and the general population of Anons.
Wendy's point that a pseudonym poster is still anonymous is true to the extent that his/her personal identity is unknown but so what?
This blog would run just great with picture posters posting under pseudonyms as their gender and personal identity is of no consequence to the readers.
oh give a break here will you on the collating garbage. Anyone can sign in as CM.
If he wants it for himself, then register the handle, but even by doing that its no guarantee that another CM could come along and use it as well.
However, I have advised you that the best way to take control of the situation here is to take the offer from Barry Forward... become a Contributor....only Barry Forward will know who you are, which is bad unless of course you're not a Liberal.
Oh pulleeze. "Anyone" can post as anyone if it's really that important to them.
There is a cadre of pseudonyms on this blog - GNDR, kstar, Lynn Valley Today, Ban the Anons, CM and numerous other frequent posters and we have very little problem with others assuming their identity.
On the other hand, maybe we should just go for it and make everyone Anon like you and problem solved.
Haven't you many anons ever thought of the fact that people like myself, John Sharpe, and others are proud of our comments and your a sheep in a wolf's clothing?
You are boring and contrite.
Don Bell set this plan in action, the best man at his second and third wedding was Richard Walton.
The Berkley slide was on land that required the reversal of an engineering decision by the then serving mayor to allow development.
Really? In which election years did Ernie top the polls?
Barry F. has said it succinctly.
Agree or not this post has caused discussion on where an aspect of this community is going. I wish the discussion could have been as animated at the OCP Review meetings.
I don't disagree with John telling us that Ernie topped the polls many times, I'm just asking when some of those many times happened?
Ernie never topped the polls, that "honour" always seemed to go to Janice Harris (why, I'll never know). But in 1999, Ernie was the last one to be elected. I think what John means is that Ernie was almost always one of the ones in the top half, which would probably stand up to scrutiny (except for 1999 as mentioned above).
And as to why this particular post has garnered to much interest, it's because, as usual, Wendy takes such an outrageous position that most people can't stand by and let her comments stand. And then we get the usual defense position from her - ad nauseum.
Ernie topped the polls many times. You find the dates and prove me wrong. I am a delegator.
Anon 7:07, thanks for your post. I know that traffic in Lynn Valley is no worse than traffic elsewhere and Ernie never "topped the polls many times".
The point is that there are prolific posters on this blog who seem to think that posting their picture somehow transforms their "opinions" into "facts" and I'm tired of that level of arrogance.
It's somewhat offensive that those posers have so little regard for the readers of their thoughts that they believe they are fooling all of the people some of the time and vice versa.
Ernie Crist told me that the first time he was elected to DNV Council he "topped the polls." He also told me that he did so other times. Are you calling him a liar
Or perhaps you are calling me a liar!! Check the facts and prove me wrong.
"Ernie topped the polls many times. You find the dates and prove me wrong. I am a delegator."
delegator means....
A person authorized to act as representative for another; a deputy or an agent
What
we could call you a liar or an idiot or both, but never a delegator.
you had the chance to run for office and stepped down. Why?
Wendy, take a deep breath.
It was John who told us today at 11:55 that Ernie topped the polls many times, not you.
Somehow you have transferred his statement to yourself and taken ownership.
If John or you are going to tell us this as a fact then it is up to John (or you) to advise us in which years Ernie beat all other candidates.
Huffing and puffing and being angry doesn't make you correct.
After all, the two of you have made the statement so prove it.
John where are you?
You seem to have left a lady in distress, perhaps you would care to come to her rescue and provide the poll topping election dates?
Ernie Crist told me that the first time he was elected to DNV Council he "topped the polls." He also told me that he did so other times. Are you calling him a liar?
Wednesday, December 30, 2009 9:20:00 PM
I am in the process of finding the local election results from 1976 to 1996.
Well, to lighten your load a little, John, Ernie first ran in 1979.... and the years 1999 to 2005are available without much effort. Generally speaking, results for those taking a first crack at elected office are seldom earth-shattering, so I would doubt that in 1979 Ernie would have "topped the polls". That said, if he achieved an astonishing result in 1981 onward, I'm sure you will find it.
Wendy, Ernie was a bit of a legend in his own mind, and I would venture to guess that with the gift of time, his recollection of success at the ballot box was more than a bit embellished. It happens.
http://www.dnv.org/article.asp?c=764
Election results 1999 to 2009
http://www.dnv.org/upload/documents/council_reports/70728.pdf
1996 election results no ballots included
In the City of North Vancouver we can go all the way back to the first meeting Minutes whereas the District of North Vancouver stops at 1999.
What with the lack of accessibility to past Minutes AND election results that are contained within those Minutes?
I didn't see anything blue...You lose on the Ernie...
What the hell does that mean, Wendy?
What the hell does that mean, Wendy?
It means you're not finding anything blue because Ernie told her she's a delegator. Or something. Anyways, the point is that you're wrong. I think.
The Municial Clerk's Office at District Hall is closed until Monday, Jan.4th so there is no one availbale to dig up prior 1999 results. I am happy to try again in the New Year if this is still of interest to bloggers.
Notwithstanding it has been my understanding from others and Ernie himself that he came in very high in local election results throughout the 80's and 90's. As far as being at the very top of the polls is concerned perhaps we will know next week unless there is a fee to dig up this info. which I couldn't nail down either.
John, it really doesn't matter. The man was popular in his early days and did well - whether he came first, second or third is moot. Latterly, he became somewhat of a nut case in the eyes of many. I respected him for his intellect and great sense of humour but did not agree with his politics or the way he seemed to abuse his position. 'nuff said.
Ernie lost 5 times before he was elected.
He was a self proclaimed communist who could get the the votes of the right wing people because of his heated opposition to Don Bell and the Liberal controlled Council.
In North Van history he is the other side of the coin with Don on one side and Ernie on the other.
I agree with you on one thing, whether he came in at the top or not doesn't matter however, I am being challenged by other bloggers for the numbers.
I think he actually lost 6 times before being elected, but people need to understand that in the 70's council seats were filled two at a time for three year terms. So every year there was an election and every year two seats were up for grabs. Ernie did "top the polls" in a few elections, but he was only running against part of the sitting council. Ever since the elections were reformed to have the entire council elected once ever three years, he has been elected but he has not topped the polls. Marilyn Baker, Don Bell, Murray Dykeman and Janice Harris all beat him for councillor positions, in various elections (and yes, they all went on to become Mayors).
If you are really interested in the history check out this appendix to the Reflections book.
I believe Ernie Crist did actually top the polls in 1990, which would have been a full council election. Oops.
Crist, Ernie
A: 1980-1983 1984-1992
C: 1993-
Source: Page 1 of the above link ".....this appendix to the Reflections book."
http://www.dnv.org/upload/documents/3reflect_webversion.pdf
Ernie is in the photographs on pages five and six too.
Ernie was my best friend and mentor for 2 and a half years. He put forward many non-densification motions and due to this we have a golf course instead of 1300 single family homes as was put forth by Couns. Janice Harris.
The new densification of Lynn Valley was his "pet peeve" and he told me many times that this "will not succeed at the expense of the people who live in Lynn Valley."
We people in Lynn Valley voted for a "pedestrian-oriented town centre."
We got nothing of the sort. We got a car-oriented MALL with no designated bike lanes which we voted for in the 1996 referendum.
Happy New Year Wendy....May you stop b*tching so much in 2010!
Perhaps the Town Centre should have been built closer to Lynn Canyon or at the top of Mountain Highway where people do walk a lot. Or perhaps closer to the community centre. I honestly don't think you would be happy no matter where it was built, but in order to succeed, it needs to be where people congregate whether they got there by car or on foot. Sheesh!
It is NOT a "town centre" -- it is a car mall.
Then move to Whistler, for gawd's sake.
Does the District of North Vancouver have a Centre at all?
On July 1st the two municipalities join forces and ride/walk/jog/cycle through upper Lonsdale which is the City of North Vancouver's Centre, but the District.....is it Lynn Valley from south of the "car mall" to the north.....
Bang on Anon 10:42AM. The powers that be don't seem to realize the damage that one woman is single-handedly doing to this blog. Wendy has turned what could be a really worthwhile forum for debate into something that is rarely worth the time to read.
My friend and Mentor Marilyn Baker always told me that Lynn Valley's destiny was to become a freeway juncture to facilitate transportation across the North Shore. Upper Lynn Valley anyway -- Westlynn and Lynnmour's destiny is to become garbage dumps.
How dare anyone disagree with what I am saying. I live in Lynn Valley so I am right.
And your tongue is placed firmly in your cheek, no?
NO COMMENTS BEYOND THIS POINT
THIS TOPIC IS CLOSED BY THE ADMINISTRATOR AKA DELEGATOR
Hold on there.
Gov't offices have been closed for the holidays and we await the posting of the records of Ernie's many poll topping election dates that are going to be provided.
Now, now, don't get excited. All you have to do is wait till Monday and we'll have a NEW topic to talk about.
At the top of the list I think we should find out why the public has complete access to all of the minutes for the City of North Vancouver but in the District they don't have an "Open and Transparent" government.
Anon 6:39 PM. All you have t do is go to the DNV web site and you have access to all meeting minutes going back to 1993. I would imagine that if you want anything earlier that they are available for the asking.
http://www.dnv.org/article.asp?a=4384&c=83&v=10
Is that open and transparent enough for you?
I have a couple comments regarding what I have just read:
#1.I have the right to my opinions as you do to yours, commenters.
#2 I know for fact that the late great Ernie Crist was a total fan of Marilyn Baker's.
#3 I know for fact that the late great Ernie Crist thought Murray Dykeman was a fool.
I cannot stand the DNV website. Even when I phone staff they give me the runaround regarding what I want.
1. You do have the right to your own opinions, as do people who disagree with you. What we dislike is that you take your ball and go home if you don't like how the game is going.
2. Everyone was a Marilyn Baker fan.
3. Lots of people felt less than excited bout Murray Dykeman. I for one thought he was a very ineffective mayor.
4. Agree with you about the DNV website. It is not intuitive or user-friendly. You have to have an auger to drill down to find stuff.
The question has been asked:
Is that open and transparent enough for you?
Saturday, January 02, 2010 8:15:00 PM
Well NO it isn't.
Why are DNV Council's Minutes beyond 1993 only available upon request?
What are they hiding, because that's the implication.
If I want to know how many times EC and DB won at the elections why do I have to wait till Monday?
Why does it require to take someone away from their desk to do research into a question that really should be available on line?
Well now I know why the District of North Vancouver has a full time
SCREENING OFFICER
This thread is starting to get interesting.
How many city fathers (other gender included) have been given an after life award, recognition by way of a:
"Naming of Parks & Other Parks Related Means of Honouring Special Persons" -
Source: Parks Administration
12-5810-1 http://www.dnv.org/article.asp?c=609
"The honouring of special persons in a park can be by many means such as dedicating a fountain, bench, park facility, field, etc. as long as there is a clear connection between the community contribution of the individual and the facility or area being named;"
Freedom of the District was given to Ernie Crist but he only managed to enjoy it for such a short time.
How many other past individuals have been honoured by being given the Freedom of the District and have they received other honours afterwards?
This type of research can only be done by having complete access to the Minutes of the District of North Vancouver, uhnindered, which should be on line.
I say unhindered because if word got out that one individual was researching this type of information in all likelihood there would be a stampede of others seeking the same information for well deserving individuals or GROUPS.
I think that an appropriate honour would be to name a trail bike route after the former Councillor.
Maybe the North Shore Mountain Biking Association will put in a good word for him.
Ernie Crist was against all mountain biking on Fromme. This is a dedicated fact.
Just like the people of Lynn Valley voted for designated bike lanes on Lynn Valley Road in 1996.
Speaking of facts, has anyone obtained the list of NVD councillor election poll toppers?
Woof, Woof!
What is a "dedicated fact" for heaven's sake?
"The clerk advised that the information would be added to the DNV website shortly. To those denegrating the staff service at DNV, in my opinion this is good service and your comments lack merit."
Hmmmm. I wonder if all of the information, Minutes of Council Meetings, will also be added to the DNV website shortly because the current practice is to keep the public in the dark after hours.
"The clerk was very polite and the information was compiled and provided, in writing, within 4 hours of the request."
Four hours of taxpayers monies for some curious peoples questions that had to wait all of the weekend before the answer was provided, and in the meantime.... we could have been moving onto other subjects, more pressing.
There is this rule of thumb when it comes to time lost on job sites (municipal halls included).
The clerk was doing something before being interrupted. Then the clerk had to stop. Went out and found the information, unrelated to her current job. If she had been permitted to continue her work, without interruption, it would have been completed and the clerk would have moved onto something else and completed that as well. That's twelve extra hours plus benefits.
Why doesn't DNV put everything up on the internet?
Although residents of low-density single-family communities tend to have two or more cars per household, residents of high-density apartments and condominiums tend to have only one car per household.23 And according to one
study using data from the National Personal Transportation Survey, doubling density decreases the
vehicle miles traveled by 38 percent.
The reason is that higher-density developments make for more walkable neighbourhoods and bring together the concentration of population required to support public
transportation. The result is that residents in higher-density housing make fewer and shorter auto trips than those living in low-density housing.
The only Source for all of the previous statistics...
http://georgetownvillage.biggeorgeventures.com/myths_facts3.html
My nephew tells me that Barry Forward has the technology to know who comments here.
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