Monday, April 18, 2011

Ignatieff should have mentioned Harper's "Separation, Alberta-style: It is time to seek a new relationship with Canada."

Ignatieff was in North Vancouver yesterday. A sizable crowd came out to see him speak. One of the issues he spoke about was Stephen Harper's claim that a Conservative majority is the only answer to Quebec separatism. He said the Conservatives are fear mongering and he is right. They are. However, I was disapointed in his response. After all, leaving aside the fact that most Quebecers hate Harper guts and a Harper majority would likely increase support for separation, Harper record leaves a lot to be desired.

This is a man who wrote a paper called "Separation, Alberta-style: It is time to seek a new relationship with Canada."

This is a man who said Albertans had a lot to learn from Quebec Separatists.

"It is to take the bricks and begin building another home -- a stronger and much more autonomous Alberta. It is time to look at Quebec and to learn. What Albertans should take from this example is to become "maitres chez nous."

This is a man who held up Belgium, a country on the verge of breaking up, as a model for Canada

"I think we should look at more creative ways of dealing with some of the demands for change in the country," Harper said. "I used the Belgium model."
... "I want my party to consider how this model could be adopted to Canada," Harper said in a prepared text of the speech.

This is a man who has repeatedly denigrated Canadian public opinion.

"Canada appears content to become a second-tier socialistic country, boasting ever more loudly about its economy and social services to mask its second-rate status, .... "

"Any country with Canada’s insecure smugness and resentment can be dangerous".

"We [Alberta] are the only province in Canada keeping pace with the top tier countries in the world. Now we must show that we will not stand for a second-tier country run by a third-world leader with fourth-class values."

"Canada is a Northern European welfare state in the worst sense of the term, and very proud of it"

And this is man who downplayed the importance of a yes vote for separation and said it was of secondary importance to him.

"Whether Canada ends up as o­ne national government or two national governments or several national governments, or some other kind of arrangement is, quite frankly, secondary in my opinion"


Anonymous said...

Yeah and Ignatieff refered to the US as "my country".

Attack blog, yawn.

Koby said...

and In the following Harper was not talking about Canada as including Alberta he was talking about them as being two distinctive units.

Stephen Harper: "Canada appears content to become a second-tier socialistic country, boasting ever more loudly about its economy and social services to mask its second-rate status, led by a second-world strongman appropriately suited for the task."

Stephen Harper: "Any country with Canada’s insecure smugness and resentment can be dangerous."

Of course, Igantieff was never a serial Canada basher, but Harper was.

Anonymous said...

Iggy resided in the US for many years and postured that the US was his country and now returns as a pretender to the PM's office.

No wonder that tonight's news shows Canadians rating Iggy well at the bottom of the pack as PM material.

Good grief even Jack Layton is beating the pants off him in the polls.

Koby, get into reality. Forget about fighting the Cons - you don't have a prayer. Start fighting the socialists or their popularity will steal your support and your seats.

It's desperation time and you're in survival mode.

Griffin said...

So true given that it is now the NDP in second place behind the Bloc in La Belle Province. Whoda thunkit?

Anonymous said...

And Koby, admirer that you are, your beloved Iggy should also have mentioned this:

Michael Ignatieff has said that he was on the sidelines of the Iraq war, but new information reveals he was on the front lines of pre-invasion planning when he worked in the U.S.

Ignatieff — long known to be a supporter of the decision to invade — was part of an academic advisory team that helped U.S. state department and American military officials conduct strategy sessions.

To read the full story, use this link:

Anonymous said...

When the polls place Layton ahead of Iggy, its got to send out some warning bells to the rest of us. With the choices we have out there, Harper is the "best" choice we have.

Anonymous said...

Ipsos-Reid poll on this evening's newscast show the NDP well ahead of the Libs across Canada.

Imagine that. Layton as leader of the opposition!

Imagine this. Layton has said that he is quite willing to enter into a coalition. How does NDP Prime Minister Layton sound?

Yikes! Von Con.

John Sharpe said...

Prime Minister Layton sounds sweet to me. Be a refreshing change from the rebounding back and forth between the usual two what basically seem like inept governments anyway.

I've always liked Ed Broadbent, Tommy Douglas and the likes. Why not have Layton have a go at being the government. No one else has done much good. For one thing the others seem to pay hardly any attention the environmemt which to me seems the most important. The NDP seems to have a better environmental platform, they are more supportive of the average citizen, and wouldn't allow the big corporations to pay less tax.

When the air is no longer fit to breathe, the water no longer drinkable, and the soil won't grow anything, your "economy" won't mean diddly.

Anonymous said...

Funny, yet you encourage suburban sprawl. How much do you really care about the environment, John?

John Sharpe said...

If your'e saying I am encouraging urban sprawl without regard for the environment, you are incorrect.

You tell me how high-rises in North Vancouver will NOT lower the amount of cars on the road which will only add to poorer air quality, subsequent health problems, not to mention other environmental issues.

Also you have to consider what the community wants; In Lynn Valley for instance my feeling is the residents here do not want high-rises. It is not in keeping with the character of the neighbourhood. People did not choose to live in Lynn Valley with the hopes of high-rises towering and shadowing over their heads. I would rather see the lower rise density continue in line with the community plan.

But council will undoubtedly forge ahead with high-rise density anyway. You just watch, it will happen.

At one of the public hearings for the Polygon high-rise at Parkgate, I remember more than anything the one older gentlemen who spoke against this high-rise next to his house because he knew he would no longer be able to grow his tomato plants as there will no longer be enough light for them. Seems small perhaps but also very sad to me.

Anonymous said...

Get your facts straight, John. Polygon has nothing to do with it, and unless somebody is growing tomatoes on their balcony at Roche Point Tower, I don't see how there could be a private garden that would be affected by the height of the building, especially given that the tower is north of any of the single family houses in the neighbourhood. Don't get me wrong, I wasn't in favour of it, but when you complain, at least have your facts straight if you want to appear credible.

John Sharpe said...

In fact I think he is in Roche Point Tower. Like you said it probably wouldn't be a "house" but, his apartment with balcony so I am sorry about saying "house" as opposed to apartment. His concern is still valid in my opinion.

Anonymous said...

Why the continued bogeyman of pollution form cars? If anything pollution has gone down from the past because of improved emission standards. I'd wager that with even more cars, the air quality is better now than it was ten years ago.

Anonymous said...

I have nephews working overseas, they are still very much Canadian. There are in fact, two million Canadians that work out of country.

Harper is the one, who is not a true Canadian. He is merging Canada into the U.S. Harper has involved Canada in two wars, because of the U.S. He is going to, Americanize our health care. If Harper wins, Canada will become the largest state in the U.S.

There was talk of the western provinces separating from the east. It was said, the west would be 40% better off. The taxes would stay in the west. We don't have the population, to win any concessions. The east has always dictated to the west. I do believe, the Territories, wanted to join the west also.

This country is already, not Canada. Our Constitution is ignored. Our Civil Rights and Liberties, have been taken away from us. Democracy and Freedom, are buried under a ton of, corruption and dirt.

Harper is an arrogant, stubborn dictator. If he wins, consider this country, gone.

RePete said...

You guys crack me up! "Harper is an arrogant, stubborn dictator. If he wins, consider this country, gone."

1st... how CAN he have been a dictator without the support of (as it worked out... Iggy & the Libs)? How exactly is that possible?? They could have caused the government to fall any time they wanted... so they thought now was the opportune time, and it's blowing up in their faces worse than they could have possibly imagined!

2nd - Your overall statement - what do you think we free-enterprisers said when Chretien kept getting voted in? SAME THING. Yet here we are.

Nice attempt at a channel-change Kob's... as succinct in your arguments as usual I see.

See you on May 3rd!!! Iggy & Rae have booked a charter for Havana!

John Sharpe said...

Echo much of the preceeding anon.

Unfortunately we don't have to have a majority Harper gov't to make Canada virtually become the 51st state because for the most part that happened when Brian Mulroney pushed through the NAFTA. I agree a majority Harper gov't would all but be the final straw. History tells that the U.S.of A. has wanted to annex the territory of Canada. Since they were not able to literally have it they managed to do it economically. Presidents such as Eisenhower and Johnson and let's not forget Polk, intimidated the Canadian governments of the day. About all we can savour is that we did win the War of 1812 and managed to burn down the White House along the way.

Anonymous said...

What nonsense. We've got a Lib PM candidate who has spent much of his life living in the US and is recorded to have described himself as an "American" who cares about "his country"- the USA.

Then we have the ususal hysterical Libs and friends that tell us the the Cons will turn us into the 51st state.

Iggy's residence choice and his own statements reveal who is the US butt kisser.

Nice try.

Anonymous said...

The poll outcomes have clarified the voter's clear choice.

We can choose between free enterprise with the Cons or socialism and the NDP.

All other votes just assist one or the other of the two leading parties.

It's time to choose folks.

Steady hand on the tiller or left turn. What's it going to be?

Anonymous said...

RePete, glad to hear from you. The commenter just above you is a typical Liberal hack spewing out party rhetoric - and quoting his beloved Ignatieff - with no consideration of how it actually reads! He also is describing a country more like Tunisia rather than Canada for heaven's sake. Quit with the histrionics - you sound ridiculous.

And John, what are you, a Lib or a Dipper? Either way, you strike me as a small-minded little guy with no vision, and who really doesn't understand the machinery of economics. Layton as PM - gimme a break. As Leader of the Opposition...well, okay, I can see him doing a credible job of that and I'd much prefer him over icky Iggy.

RePete said...

Hi Anon 1:43am,

It's not that John doesn't understand the machinery or economics.. rather, he rejects them (IMHO). John is a former Green Party candidate.. (Provincially?). Although if I had to guess his position on free enterprise I'm sure I wouldn't like the answer.

At least though he's consisten on his issue. Unlike a Liberal who says whatever strikes them at the moment as causing problems for their opponents. Liberal "principles" flap in the breeze more than anything (IMHO).

Anonymous said...

Yet on this blog, he's praised Ignatieff as the Country's saviour (perhaps not in so many words...) and now he's extolling the virtues of Mr. Layton. So I'd say he's flapping in the breeze, too.

John Sharpe said...

I don't tow any particular party line and I'm not a member of any either. To be honest politics stinks and it's corrupt and everyone on this blog is intelligent enough to know that.
Unfortunately in the riding of North Vancouver due to our antiquated voting system, if the Harpers don't rock your boat, the only way to hope to keep them out is to vote Liberal. We need a 'mixed member proportional' or some similar voting system in Canada so the citizens can truly decide the political landscape. I have my opinions (like everyone else here) and they lean towards Liberal and NDP ideals - Canada has a mixed economy and that's partly what makes it a great country. The almighty buck and greed needs to start taking a back seat to more basic issues such as the environment and the citizens. Chances are oil won't even be around for our grandchildren and great grandchildren. ("IMHO" - LOL) a vote for Harper is just going to take us further down that greedy road.

The Federal parties squabbling amongst each other are little more than tribes competing for power. It's despicable. And for the most they're disconnected to the people. Just ask most any young Canadian of eligible voting age.

Colin said...

Layton is an adequate politician for Municipal and Provincial Politics. It would be an utter disaster for him ever to be the PM. He would be shredded in the international arena. As much as I dislike the man and his politics, I am enjoying him putting the screws to the Bloc, who royally deserve.
Losing this election badly will be the best thing that has happened to the Liberals. In the aftermath they can have their own Nacht der langen Messer and clear out the deadwood and corruption.
As much as I support the Conservatives, at some point they will have to be kicked out as well and a viable alternative will be needed. The current urbanized NDP is far to socialist for me and to far from it’s roots.

Anonymous said...

Layton as PM of a coalition would precipitate another election so fast that we may as well just have a coffee at the polls and then troop back in for the next $300 million expenditure.

PS. The normally verbose Koby is conspicuous by his absence. Same thing happened last election when the hapless Dion went into a pre-election death spiral.

We've got to give Dion credit where credit is due. He was able to stay ahead of the NDP in the polls but Iggy's current position just slightly ahead of Duceppe is tragic.

Big starter but finish? Not so much.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, I noticed Koby's absence, too. It's amazing how he's crept back into his little hole when the man he extols is tanking.

Anonymous said...

Wife and I went to the advance poll this pm. Had to line up for about 20 minutes before getting to the voting booth.

They said that there were 2 hr. waits on Saturday's advance poll and that the turn out has generally been quite heavy.

Good to see the interest. I was particularly struck by some of the seniors with physical infirmities and terrible mobility issues who made such a heroic effort to cast their ballots.

Some of the youth who can't be bothered to vote should hang their heads in shame.

Anonymous said...

Where did you vote? I voted on Saturday and I was the only one there, although they said it had been busy earlier.

As for the younger set, I am betting that they vote in larger numbers this year - it's become a bit of an "in thing" on university campuses (campi?).

Anonymous said...

I voted at the senior's centre.

Good to hear about the university students and hopefully they will have influence on the majority of youth that are not attending university.

Voting should just be a pleasant duty for each good citizen.

Anonymous said...

This morning's paper. If current trends continue, the NDP could take up to 100 seats!!

Now the Libs have said that they absolutely will not be part of a coalition and that the party with the most seats is the ruling party.

So, if the Cons end up with another minority will the Libs remain true to their word?

Is it over for the mighty Liberal party? Do the Lib lefties (Koby) vote NDP to maximize their chances and the Lib right wing hold their nose and vote Con to head off the socialists and separatists?

What an interesting turn of events!

Anonymous said...

I'm not a Liberal but it seems like they have 2 choices:

1. vote Liberal and hope to form a coalition with a more popular party and hold a balance of power (given Iggy's statement this may seem hypocritical but they can always dump Iggy). Some risk in this as your riding may go Con or NDP and you're left with nothing.

2. vote Con or NDP, whichever best represents your leanings and endure some things that don't match your opinion while enjoying a general direction that you prefer.

A really tough choice and I'm glad that I don't have to make it.

Lyle Craver said...

Since I'm not a federal Liberal, I don't have a tough choice to make.

Colin said...

Got a flyer in the mail yesterday, seems the Greens and NDP here in North shore are throwing their lot behind the Liberals in hopes of defeating Saxton. so I wonder what this deal with the devil is going to cost them? The Liberal party will stab the NDP in the back as soon as it regains power, it is the nature of the beast.
I feel sorry for the volunteers of the Greens and NDP who are sold out by their party and their hard work ignored.

Anonymous said...

Last night on Mansbridge, this morning on CKNW. Tons of speculation that the Libs are done and after the election they will pursue an alliance with the NDP to counter the Cons.

Maybe your flyer is the beginning of something big?

John Sharpe said...

Got a flyer under my door today from Taleeb. It had his signature on it. I'm in a condo complex so I'm assuming he must have gained access to the building and knocked on individual doors (actually not allowed without strata council permission). Was also phoned by his office the other day to remind me of the advance poll.