Wednesday, June 22, 2011

North Shore 2011 Consumer Advocacy Group Seeks new Membership

The Harmonized Sales Tax is a hastily planned taxation system. British Columbia has one of the highest costs of living conditions in Canada.

On June 21, 2011, Gary Hee, announced future plans to initiate the North Shore 2011 Consumer Advocacy Group in North Vancouver, B.C. The primary purpose of the Group is to analyze, record and document,and emphasize the cost effects of the Harmonized Sales Tax charged on taxable items purchased by individuals and families. News media organizations will be informed of the Group's findings by press releases when evidence is available.

The secondary purpose of the Group is to watch for, highlight, and prevent future government plans or intentions to tax HST on the sale of existing older homes and related renovation construction projects.

This not-for-profit organization is seeking new members. Students up to seniors are welcomed. Other chapters will be formed in the future. A steering committee will manage the policies and mandate of the Group.

A suggested membership fee of $12.00 per year is voluntary or by donation.

Mailing address is Suite 460, 1641 Lonsdale Avenue, North Vancouver, BC, V7M 2J5

Contact by email: garyhee@hotmail.com

100 comments:

Anonymous said...

The majority of countries in the world use a value added tax system - hardly hastily contrived.

If it is the objective of the "consumer group" to find "evidence" of negative impacts I'm sure they'll succeed.

I'd like an objective body like StatsCan to undertake another review of the BC HST using the proposed 10% figure and advise a non-biased outcome.

Anonymous said...

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if this is a perceived tax shift from business to the consumer. Regardless, there is only one person paying the taxes that the government needs to collect, that's you! If government collects more taxes from business, business makes it up by charging it to the consumer.

It's time for everyone to decide they're prepared to pay the services that government delivers, or decide which ones they are prepared to lose in the name of "no more taxes".

Gary Hee said...

J. S:
re: Shopping for a Home.

I wish to refer your readers to the effects of HST on real estate homes in B.C. because most B.C. residents goals are to own their own home and raise a family in this province. BC is rated highly as one of the best locations to live. Our climate and geographical settings are superb. As shown on the following website,
http://www.vancouver-real-estate-direct.com/HST/chart.html,
the HST has resulted in an increase in the price of a $600,000.00 home and property as compared to the cost for the same at the GST rate. The additions cost is $15,890.00. When added to a mortgage loan, the compounded interest plus principal payment forces the new owner to great risk of debt-default and bankruptcy. Although the builder, receives the rebate, the new home purchaser is contracted to pay the interest payments which are not personally recoverable, i.e. not refundable. Thus the purchaser's ability to service the debt is very fragile and more critical.
The law firm of Rosborough and Company has generously provided a BC Real Estate new Home HST Calculate which I wish to emphasize to your readers. It is located at http://www.rosborough.com/HSTCalculator/HSTCalculator.htm. Although the HST Claimed Rebate is set at the amount of $26,250.00, the 7% additional tax on $600,000.00, which is $72,000.00 is like a shot-gun blast to the wallet of the new home purchaser. Because of the world-wide recession, jobs are not guaranteed to last 35 years minimum. We therefore need to be vigilant and cautious.
I thank you for this opportunity to express my view point in this blog. (No harm is intended).

G.H.

Gary Hee said...

BC Real Estate new Home HST Calculator is located at the following corrected webpage :

http://www.rosborough.com/HSTCalculator/HSTCalculator.htm

Anonymous said...

Thanks Anon 12:32. Good common sense.

Yes, wouldn't it be great if gov't at all levels just did those things that gov't is required to do?

Highways, roads, bridges, public safety, health care etc.

Privatize sports stadiums and arenas, golf courses, playing fields, daycare, art galleries and all the fluff.

Love to see services and therefore taxes pared back.

Anonymous said...

I agree that there is only one taxpayer and that taxes paid by businesses are simply passed on to the consumer. Value Added Taxes keep taxes out of the business stream and avoid paying tax on tax.

Anonymous said...

In fact, people pay what they can afford for a house. No one agrees on a price and then is surprised to pay HST on top. Everyone calculates all costs in buying a house including legal costs, property transfer tax and now HST. What will happen is that the vendor will get less. House prices will not go up because of HST.

Anonymous said...

I Think that Mr. Hee is trying to scare people. Taxes are a fact of life, right up there with death. Services need to be payed for and you and I are the only ones who are going to pay for them. It's time to stop all this anti-HST nonsense and work towards making governments operate as efficiently as possible so that we're getting good value for our tax dollars. Transferring the tax to business will just be charged back to us. The anti-tax brigade needs to start being honest about this and stop trying to scare people with half-truths and misinformation. They are starting to sound like the American tea-party, which is beyond scary.

Anonymous said...

Anon 6:05
“It's time to stop all this anti-HST nonsense and work towards making governments operate as efficiently as possible” Couldn’t agree with you more. I often wonder why nobody has done a report card on municipalities.

Anonymous said...

Gary, you are barking up the wrong tree entirely, as ANY financial tax expert will advise you.
---
If you want a target regarding Housing, check out the tax that Bill V D Zalm introduced, the Property Purchase transfer tax...

Anonymous said...

Exactly, Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:09:00 PM. The Zalms property transfer tax is the biggest slap in the face to consumers ever. It's a huge cash grab that needs to go away.

John Sharpe said...

I was invited to participate in Mr. Sultan's 'Town Hall' telephone meeting two nights ago and found it very interesting. The majority of the calls in were about the HST.

During the Town Hall Mr. Sultan admitted the HST is not revenue neutral as the Liberals had us believe. In fact the gov't has realised an $800 million 'windfall' due to the absence of PST excemptions. Some callers complained of substantial personal cost of living increases in to the hundreds of dollars.

Anonymous said...

Nobody wants taxes and nobody wants government services cut. Anybody see the disconnect here?

Anonymous said...

Everyone in Ralph Sultan's riding was invited to participate in his telephone townhall meeting and I was one of numerous participants.

Taxes, including HST, are pretty simple. They pay for politicians and public sector workers to provide services to the public.

HST, PST, Carbon Tax, Provincial Income Tax, Luxury Tax, Fuel Tax, Property Transfer Tax (Bill Van der Zalm - anti-tax hero's baby) - you name it. Until the budget is balanced they will increase and there are no "windfalls."

HST is just "flavour of the month" for those that don't understand that the gov't will increase taxes in any and all of the hidden and exposed taxes to meet their budget shortfall. Simple folk.

Carbon tax, which has virtually no effect on reducing our carbon production, goes up tomorrow but the anti-HST folk are oddly silent.

A timely example of a hidden tax automatically layered on.

We cannot increase services without a commensurate increase in taxes.

Service cuts are incredibly unpopular and politicians usually don't have the fortiude to make them.

Service cuts are the only way to reduce taxes, HST included.

What politician or party, Provincial or local has the guts to campaign on service cuts? Don't hold your breath.

Anonymous said...

Maybe Gary Hee would like to run again on a platform of reduced services. Hey Gary, what do you say?

Anonymous said...

Anon 8:15 am

There would be no reduction in services if you addressed profligate spending habits and replaced self-serving city managers, senior managers, councillors, and mayors.

Anonymous said...

Well, that takes care of local gov't. Far better to let the self-serving unions run things without management.

Now, what's your solution for the Provincial services which are paid for by the HST and the other bevy of hidden and transparent tax?

Anonymous said...

Why let the self-serving unions runs things when you can outsource?

John Sharpe said...

Funny thing I am not in West-Van Capilano.

Anyways I can see cutting services to attain fiscal responsibility. As to what to cut would be a whole other discussion. Politicians worth their salt would also say so in their platforms but, of course most say only what will get elected.

John Sharpe said...

And as far as the carbon tax goes well I don't like it because I don't think it goes where it's supposed to go.

However I do believe it's not so much taxes themselves as what we get back for the taxes.

Anonymous said...

Re Ralph Sultan's townhall meeting.

Everyone in his riding was called the night before by automatic message and advised that if they wished to participate in the following night's townhall meeting at 7 pm all they had to do was stay on the line when contacted by telephone.

You could press 3 to ask a question live or send in an email query to Ralph which was read out for his reply.

Lot's of to and fro. Got to say Ralph is an unflappable and candid rep.

Re outsourcing of gov't services. Yes, it's totally appropriate for some services - but not all.

I'd prefer to see the number and level of services pared back first and user pay/outsourcing looked at seriously for some of those remaining.

There should be a compensation and benefit review for those services (including elected politicians) remaining compared to equivalent private sector experience.

Public sector union's wages and benefits should be tied to private sector equivalents instead of bargaining and the labour code should be amended to allow this.

Finally, a review of arbitration law. Currently public sector union arbitrations are given huge latitude and very rich awards when compared to their private sector counterparts. Unquestionably there is a 2 stream system. This is the unseen culprit that allows for ridiculously lax working conditions that allows those that have stolen, been drunk or stoned at work, totally obstructive and disrespectful, completely failed to do their job etc. to remain employed in the public sector.

It's an allowable legal method of acquiring precedent making and expensive rulings without having to negotiate the benefit or work condition. Once enshined by the arbitrator (who has to be acceptable to the union or s/he's out) that ruling goes into practice forever and costs the public a fortune. The public never sees these and has no idea what crazy nonsense the union is able to get away with and the extraordinary resulting cost to the taxpayers.

John Sharpe said...

As I implied I am not in Ralph's riding (I am in Jane's)but, I was invited so I listened in. I found it very interesting.

Many people did call in expressing that their own personal expenses are up hundreds of dollars extra annually. I thought Ralph was somewhat insensitive to these peoples concerns but, other than that I would agree he handled himself very well.

I did email him the next day but, as yet have not received any response so I would have to say he loses points from me on that score as well. I understand he logs in to this site frequently (or at least used to) so maybe he will see this and still answer back.

Anonymous said...

You're expecting an immediate response on a long weekend?

Anonymous said...

Not sure why or how John S. would be invited to another riding's townhall meeting. Sounds like a mistake.

As a constituent, Ralph has responded to all correspondence, including email, that I have sent him. Each time he responded, in writing by canada post mail - not email.

A bit much to expect an email reply to a non-constituent. I'd place such a person at the back of the line after constituents.

He gains points with me by prioritizing responses to constituents.

John Sharpe said...

RE: BASIC ISSUES (NOT ENTIRE ISSUES)

All HST is now the Revenue of the Federal Government of Canada.
The Revenue to the Province of B.C. is subdivide into Tranfer of Funds by the Federal Government Revenue Agency.
The Pay Back dates are decided by the Federal Government unless contracted to the Provincial Government by Agreements.
Hence the ability for the BC Government to purchase goods and services is now controlled by the Federal Governments payment dates and payment amount.
If the Federal Government Employees are on strike for wage demands, the BC Government is not able to get the money back in a timely manner to pay for goods and services or cheque runs such as wages for provincial employees or welfare cheques. Even, Computer Systems malfunctions may delay payment transfers from the Federal Government to the BC Government.

The meaning of tax shift is as follows:
a) the consumer pays more tax on new and existing taxable items at 12% of the retail price at the time of purchase.
b) the consumer pays extra interest on credit card overdue accounts because of the increase cost of total invoice or bill caused by the result of item a).
c) the businesses can claim their HST tax on expenses and purchases against the HST tax collected from the consumer.
d) the businesses can claim expenses incurred in their operation;
they get capital cost allowance claims against their fixed assets;
they get special subsidies from the federal government and provincial government for job creation program;
they get tax subsidies or credits from provincial revenue ministries as a incentive to do business in British Columbia.
e) the consumer pays HST of new homes over $535,000 and legal cost which is rolled over into the total mortgage and is amortized over 35 years.
f) the business can claim the mortage cost as a business expense in a revenue earning property.

HENCE THE TERM TAX SHIFT FROM BUSINESS TO TAXPAYER IS SHOUTED OUT LOUDLY BY THE FIGHTHST PEOPLE.

Cheers, and Thank You.
Yours truly,
Gary Hee

Anonymous said...

HST and me. So I can't afford a new home over $535,000.00 but I can afford a used home over $535,000. I do however have to pay an additional tax for my $28.00 haircut. Big deal, concentrate your efforts on the real issues like inefficient government spending i.e. the Gun Registry

Anonymous said...

Tell me about it. The only ones that seem to be complaining are the seniors. They complain that it cost more to dine out, go to the theater, airline tickets for a vacation. I know of many young families struggling to make a mortgage payment would be overjoyed to go to the theater, dine out or god forbid book an airplane to go on vacation.

Anonymous said...

Why are we listening to failed politicians, rather than economists on matters of the economy and taxation?

G.H. said...

On the issue of home repair cost, I now need to replace my 15 year roof and the cost of the new one is $4366.30 plus $523.96 extra for the HST. Note that GST at 5% is $218.31. Therefore the inflated tax is $305.65. This is greater than the average cost of $285.00 to a small family. ( Independent HST Board of Advisors)

Also, the Mayors Council, for the Evergreen Line, has now recommended a 2 cents tax on a litre of gas and the possibility of adding a levy on the operation of my car which is a 1994 chevelot worth $75.00 scrap metal.

As for the nearby Westover Community School that was closed down by the North Vancouver School Board Trustee with the chairmanship of the Jane T, the current North-Van-Seymour M.L.A., the school is now leased to the Brockton Prepratory School and frequently used by the Movie Industry for filming in the Lynn Canyon Park. But my property taxes kept increasing instead of decreasing in cost. So, where is the profit going to ? Certainly, I did not get any of the rent. Taxes are way too expensive and I want to sell my house and get the heck out of this expensive town. Politicians and Executives like the President of BCF, are paid unnecessary too much; I am semi-retired and self-employed.

Good bye to North Vancouver after 38 years of supporting the community. It was an honor to be one of the Block Watch Captains for 5 years in the Lynn Valley area.

Gary H. said...

John S:
I wish to commend your readers and followers for their good manners, displayed in their comments.

To Fight for Independence takes courage. And Courage is inherent. As Canadians, are we strong or are we weak? Or, just afraid? We will see. Thank you for your interest.

Gary H.

Anonymous said...

In spite of feeling somewhat ambivalent about the HST, I voted Yes on the ballot today. Businesses are yelling loud and hard about it being better for them and I agree that it saves them a lot of money, but they are not passing on those savings to consumers. If this referendum fails, I truly believe the government will come up with Plan B in an attempt to keep it, and as long as they keep the same exemptions as the PST/GST combo, I'm fine, otherwise, it's a tax grab plain and simple, and one that was foisted on the public with no consultation.

What they are doing now is simply a bad "fix" for a bad tax, and will do little to lessen the magnitude of the underground economy which has I suspect grown exponentially since this tax was introduced.

Anonymous said...

How unbelievably short sited of you John (and anyone voting yes). I encourage you to read Vaughn Palmers article in yesterday's Sun, if you haven't done so. Actually, all of his articles should be required reading. I also suggest that you carefully read the article written by Frank McKenna:

B.C. take note: HST serves New Brunswick well


BY FRANK MCKENNA, VANCOUVER SUN JULY 5, 2011

Former New Brunswick premier Frank McKenna says HST worked well in his province.

British Columbia's referendum over the harmonized sales tax has caught my interest. Many of the arguments being used today were made in New Brunswick, when my government introduced the tax back in 1997.

In hindsight, the evidence is clear. The benefits far outweigh the costs. The HST has created a positive climate for economic prosperity. And it has done so without imposing a significant tax burden on consumers.

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/business/take+note+serves+Brunswick+well/5039963/story.html#ixzz1RY5alE7q

Anonymous said...

re: Perception of Gordon Campbell's Governance.

In a Webster dictionary, the definition of Conspiracy is a plot or a combination of persons for an evil purpose and the definition of a class action suit is a number of things or persons with a common characteristic. As we know, the HST was established by both the Federal Conservative Government and the BC Liberal Government, for the benefit of Special Interest Groups, like large corporations. Both governments conspired to embed HST in as many provinces and territories in Canada as possible via co-operation and pay-back reward, like the cause and effect theory in Physics. If it were possible to sue both governments for undemocratic taxation and violation of the Human Charter of Rights, we should look at that possibility a.s.a.p.

G H said...

re: Property Transfer Tax Versus Real Estate Commission

Yes, the PTT is a tax but remember the Real Estate Industry thrives on the same assets. And now the Federal Government wants to take more of our savings at 12% on whatever it can take.

Enough is enough. It is time to stop unnecessary excessive taxation on the working population.

John Sharpe said...

"How unbelievably short sited of you John (and anyone voting yes)."

I assume you are speaking as well of the 750,000 plus registered voters of the Province of B.C. who signed the NOHST petition for the the opportunity to stop it. Nice to be an 'anonymous' for such statements.

I read your interesting references. I respect the points of views of MCKenna and Palmer. I seem to recall that Palmer was one of numerous journalists who predicted the NOHST petition would fail miserably? In the meantime I'll put my faith in the Democratic process and the HST Referendum. That's what this is really all about anyway.

Anonymous said...

Sorry John, but 750,000 signatures doesn't represent a majority. And you know as well as I that that petition was more about expressing anger at how the government brought in the tax than about the tax itself. Too many people are using this referendum to punish the government regardless of the tax making sense. As I said, short sighted.

Anonymous said...

Yes, too bad some use the referendum to punish a government. At the end of the day who really suffers the government or constituents? People like John or an example of self-serving individuals selling out the younger generation

Anonymous said...

A twitter posting I saw said it best:

I'm all for democracy, but having us vote on the HST is like allowing your kids to vote on bedtime and the dinner menu.

G H said...

Re: Bank of Canada Prime Interest Rate @ 3% Versus Harmonized Sales Tax @ 12%

The primary investment generator in the Canada is the Bank Prime Interest Rate @ 3%.
The HST @ 12% is "NOT" the primary job creator. It forms less an 5% of the total investment.
Therefore it is inaccurate for business executives and BC Liberal Government members to imply all jobs are created by the HST only

These Pro-HST individuals are attempting to Fool All of Us, All the Time. We have been warned by Abraham Lincoln, past-U.S. President

Read more: http://www.theprovince.com/news/Guest+column+been+since/5067770/story.html#ixzz1RdxD8fEw

John Sharpe said...

"And you know as well as I that that petition was more about expressing anger at how the government brought in the tax than about the tax itself."

-smoke and mirrors promoted by the gov't and pro HST.

I rejected the idea of the HST right from the VERY beginning SIMPLY because of the increase of costs to the consumer and it had nothing to do with gov't blunder. I suspect many people feel the same and having canvassed for the petition I could see this was a sentiment as much or more than the "punishing of gov't" which I don't buy.

I accept your criticsm of being myopic in so far as being able to 'read a receipt' which shows in black and white that I and many other average citizens are now paying more for many consumables. Do you expect these items will ever go down in price because of the HST, Hah!

Gary Hee said...

Point of Fact:
The time allocated for the Citizens Initiative Petition was limited to 90 days or 3 months. On a projected scale of 6 months, the signature count would be projected to be 1,400,000 signatures in a province of over 3 or more million people in total. If only registered voters signed the petition the result would like be very convincing for the anti-HST team.
However, the Pro-HST team seem to suffer a neurotic disorder called "a sense of self-denial".

But, I wish to warn all British Columbians that if the Harmonized Sales Tax survives the Referendum and the anti-HST force is soundly defeated, the BC Liberals might or will initiate a study to apply the 12% tax on the sale of existing houses as a “REVENUE SOURCE” in the future. The reason for this warning is that real estate is the foundation of wealth in British Columbia and the Value of Land is increasing daily. Hence the "Golden Egg" is compared to the ground that we are standing on.

Gary H

G H said...

Typing Error Apology:

The B C Liberals no longer has control of the Taxes. It is now controlled by the Federal Conservatives and Stephen Harper who have greater powers and authority to increase the HST upward past 12%in the future. The probability of the HST decreasing is rare because Ottawa has a huge operating deficit. Other provinces would seek equal treatment for any HST compensation reduction.

G H

Anonymous said...

Real estate is the foundation for wealth? Who's wealth? The banks that hold the mortgage? Gary do you hold an economics degree?

G H said...

The 2011 Referendum was chosen by Premier Christy Clark, instead of voting by MLAs in the Legislature after the Election BC forwarded its decision to the Legislative Committee.

G H said...

Ask Donald Trump if an Economic Degree is necessary? or Common Sense ?

Anonymous said...

I encourage you all to read this and think.

Don't vote if you haven't considered the economics of the HST


BY GORDON GIBSON, VANCOUVER SUN JULY 9, 2011


The HST mail ballots are arriving in numbers now. It's show time. It is a very unusual opportunity for citizens to make an actual tax decision. What follows will discuss not so much the merits of one side or the other, but the politics and psychology of this kind of "direct democracy," an idea much loved by some political reformers.

As for the merits of the tax, I personally will be voting No -to support the 10-per-cent harmonized sales tax. How strange is that? Vote "no" in order to say "yes." Many British Columbians will be confused. It is not a good referendum question, but it is the one we have.

My thinking is in two simple parts. First, we know we have to pay taxes and raise "X" amount of money for government services. If not this 10-per-cent HST, then should it be the former tax regime (i.e., the sevenper-cent provincial sales tax added to the five-per-cent federal goods and services tax, total 12 per cent)?

In my view, a tax that catches services as well as goods spreads the burden more fairly. The squawkers are those service providers who didn't have to bear the burden before. I guess I would squawk, too, in their shoes, but when the smoke clears, I go for fairness.

The second part: I know a lot of the economists who strongly support the HST and I respect their opinions. But each represents just one person's view, out of millions. The much more interesting part relates to the politics and the democratic process.

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/vote+haven+considered+economics/5077715/story.html#ixzz1Rf3Je3gN

John Sharpe said...

Precisely Gary. That is the real issue here.

Anonymous said...

So you're saying that voting no is undemocratic? What nonsense! Sorry John and Gary, but you're starting to sound like the American tea party crowd who accuse those who disagree with them as being un-patriotic. That crap has no place in our country. We are free to vote as we chose.

Gary, you're the one who is spreading vanderzalms fear and misinformation, not I. I prefer to listen to people who know something about economics. Washed out politicians do not fall in that category. I see a lot of failed politicians trying to get back in the limlight with this issue and am not buying it. Take your populist crap elsewhere and start thinking of the province as a whole and the future of our kids, not just the few dollars you may personally be out of pocket. Taxes are a necessity. If not the HST it will be something else. I guarantee it. Until you folks stop demanding your services from the government, we'll not see any decrease in taxes. Time to wake up and face reality and stop behaving like a bunch of spoiled, entitled brats.

G H said...

Wow. Very strong and rude words from Mr. A.
On the other side, my friend died of Cancer and he did not desire it as a teacher forced to quit due to his disabilities.
But I respect him till the end, so He lost everything.
Mr. A should realize that wealth is superficial, it is not the catalyst that bond families and real sincere friends. Amen.

Anonymous said...

Gary I thought you said you were leaving North Vancouver after 38 years? Anyway I can help you expedite the process? Can you take John with you?

John Sharpe said...

Yes very strong, rude words indeed. As I said earlier; nice to be an 'anonymous' or a 'whomever' when making such disrespectful statements. Everyone is entitled to their points of views and whether YOU agree or not isn't the important thing.

Also, when I was agreeing with Mr. Hee, you assume I meant everyone should vote YES when all I meant was people should simply exercise their democratic right to vote.

Anonymous said...

Strong and rude?! What Mr. Hee intimated was ruder than anything I wrote when he said:

"Attention:
Please listen.
Everyone should vote YES if they believe in democracy, because Freedom of Speech in Canada is one of the Canadian Charter of Rights. And other people should stop intimidating voters who believe in justice and equality."

Anonymous said...

John, do you ever get tired of back peddling?

John Sharpe said...

Why I'm voting against the HST

The HST is bad for working British Columbians because it is a massive, unjustified cost shift directly from corporations to consumers, and that's why I'm voting against it.

To try and dampen down the anger about the HST, on May 25 the BC Liberals made promises regarding future changes to the HST and how "rebate cheques” would go to some families and seniors.

These promises are blatantly designed to try and buy the vote and save the HST, without significantly affecting the billions of dollars in savings the HST means to corporations – the same corporations that provide almost 90 percent of the BC Liberal party's funding.

read more

http://www.ufcw1518.com/presidents-blog/3843

Gary Hee said...

re: Mark Carney, Governor of the Bank of Canada, gave a excellent speech at the Vancouver Board of Trade, as shown on TV.

He stated that British Columbians invest 40% of their income on real estate which increases their risk of financial problems. They are saving less but they need to save more.

Because the Harmonized Sales Tax is inflationary, I am concerned that many young families do not manage their finances adequately or safely enough.

Hence, this is one of the reasons for my suggestion that a Consumer Advocacy Group might be a good proposal in the future.

Anonymous said...

Ah, so now John is just towing the union line. As I've said before, it doesn't matter if it's a shift to the consumer. There is only one tax payer and that's you. If the shift moves back towards business, we pay the tax through higher costs at the cash counter. It doesn't matter where you think the tax shift is. No matter what, you are paying all of it.

Anonymous said...

Wow, talk about a boomerang of an argument - the HST rebates are actually preventing prices from going up!!

This tax may be good in principle but if it's so good, then increase the exemptions to something similar to what they were before. The savings to government and business will still be there and it won't hit the consumer so hard.

John Sharpe said...

Towing the union line? I am an active member of my union and have offered the perspective of it's president.

Anon 8:36 AM,

Along the same lines; If the price I pay for everyday product and services (because of the HST)is higher from a limited pool of revenue, that means I have to cut back somewhere else - probaby less essential items? This translates to less sales and hours and employment in those areas.

Mocrael said...

John, if we go back to the 12% GST/PST combo, Kevin Falcon doesn't promise us we will get the same exemptions as before! Chances are the PST/GST will be tacked onto everything, just like with the HST!

I have not been given a "straight answer" on that by either Jane or Falcon. Their waffling on the issue is a sure sign we may be better off now with the proposed 10% HST by 2014 (which I have been assured has been "written into law" -- if we vote to keep the HST). In the end we will be better off than Ontario and the Maritimes.

If we are "still" angry with the way the BC Libs have handled the whole HST thing, there will be an election in a couple years! As stands now, we may be better off with the HST...

Gary Hee said...

I have been asked if the GST / PST will remain at 12% if the Referendum to extinquish the HST ia successful by the YES team. Firstly most of the new items that were inflated by the 12% HST are listed in the Hit List which can be seen at www.fighthst.com as a information list. Secondly a video by the Money and Wealth Show interview with Bill Vander Zalm can be seen. Thirdly, those items listed would be expected to have the HST removed later. If Kevin Falcon does not remove or fails to get the 12% tax remove, he is doing the B C tax payers a disservice and may weaken his popularity in the next election.

Gary H said...

Today I received a rebate cheque for the BC Low Income Climate Action Tax Credit of $10.59 for the period of 4 months which equates to $2.65 per month or .09 cents per day. However, the 2 senior levels of government failed to show that the cost of service to produce such a cheque illustrates another sample of deficit spending and is a waste of money, labour, education, stationery paper, and energy. ( i.e. no common sense). They should maximum their limited resources instead of wasting it.

John Sharpe said...

Mocrael,

I didn't want to be the first to say that an obvious outcome if the yes side wins would be that the gov't will put gst and pst on everything anyway. Notwithstanding I agree with Gary that Falcon and the Lib party risk losing the next if they do.

On the other hand if they win the next election boosted by the "10% by 2014" 'NO' vote, what's stopping the Libs from raising the HST to a higher level like Ontario and the Maritimes?

Anonymous said...

The B C Liberal Party today compared to 2 years ago are in 2 different circumstances. The HST is its "archilles heel" and may well be the end of the Liberal and Conservative Coalition which Kevin Falcon pleaded to stay together.

Anonymous said...

Taxes are going up left right and centre and all any one is focused on is the HST. Hilarious.

Anonymous said...

Why were certain services exempt in the first place? Why not just add a VAT to everything but food and be done. While they are at it have the sticker price include VAT. This way when I go buy something if it is $20.00 I give the merchant $20.00. End of story…

Anonymous said...

Agreed. All of those exemptions under the PST made no sense and made the tax cumbersome. Let's have a proper VAT like the rest of the civilized world and be done with this nonsense once and for all!

Anonymous said...

There are only two sure things in the world, death and taxes, and we are being taxed to death, either way you look at it!

Anonymous said...

Death and taxes is true. But we are not being taxed to death. We enjoy a very good quality of life, safety nets, health care etc. If anything we do not address or do anything about inefficient government and government services.

Anonymous said...

Scenario:

You have an IT manager go to council asking for funding to upgrade applications that are at end of life. Funding is approved. The IT manager then takes this funding and upgrades a document management system that is not at end of life and replaces it with a document management system that is at end of life. Not only is the newly implemented document management system at end of life it requires a substantial amount of contractors and additional staff to maintain.

Is this seen by council and senior management as an example of efficiency or an out of control gun registry, City of North Vancouver style?

John Sharpe said...

anon 1:56 and 4:26 pm,

There were good reasons for the pst excemptions and one example was bicycles and bicycle parts to promote their use.

Also do you not want to know how much tax you are paying? Sounds like you want it roinded off to the nearest $ and wouldn't that lead to deception of price and/or inflation?

Anonymous said...

There was no mention of rounding to the nearest dolar. In my example of $20.00 use $15.63 if that would make it easier to understand.

Angry BC Tax-Payer said...

The BC Ferries Board puts BC Tax-payers last as second-class before their Executives. We are being used as suckers. The MLAs in this BC Liberal Party are either insane or corrupt.

Anonymous said...

Angry BC Tax-Payer

A bunch of suckers or lemmings take your pick. All levels of Government local, federal, provincial have done a great job of pitting tax-payer against tax-payer. Self-serving and pigging out at the trough at our expense.

Anonymous said...

The BC Ferries Board has really screwed up the Pension issues between the President's Pension and the Refusal to give 18 employees a pension. Now the BC Ferries Marine Union is on their tails.

Good Luck to the Little Guys; I hope you success with getting treated fairly in litigation.

Anonymous said...

If it wasn't for the work of the President, those "little guys" wouldn't have a job to go to every day.

Anonymous said...

Actually if they privatize the ferry system the president or the little guys wouldn’t have a job to go to everyday.

Anonymous said...

That's a big "if".

Anonymous said...

Charlie Smith with Adrian Dix part one and two;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkKbQ8ZZaa0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB-mmv8J5xU

Anonymous said...

Remember the mess the NDP made of this province the last time they were in? People sure do have short memories...

Anonymous said...

Anyone who worked in the private sector remembers the NDP because we lost our jobs and had to move to Alberta.

What do you expect from the rag Georgia Straight that gets all its revenue from the escort service advertising in the back pages?

John Sharpe said...

Stickman Explains the HST, Honestly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp2Gbgq-Hoo

Anonymous said...

Wow, that wasn't remotely honest. Did the Zalm write that one?

Anonymous said...

Great HST analysis on the editorial page of this morning's Province.

Bottom line. Regardless of income level everyone will pay less annual tax with a 10% HST contrasted to the 12% G/PST on fewer items.

I'll vote to retain the HST as I hate paying tax and I'll vote to turf the Libs. as their methods lack integrity.

Two separate issues.

John Sharpe said...

The HST was a con job from day one. The gov't needs to get the message that they are accountable.

Anonymous said...

Then give them the message at election time. Too many people are using this referendum for the wrong reason. Elections are the time to punish a party. Ignoring the benefits of a value added tax and voting against it to simply punish the government is short sited.

Anonymous said...

Anon 5:38.

You're too kind. Voting against a tax application that lowers taxes to the public to punish a government is not just short sighted.

It displays breathtaking ignorance and a pig-headed lack of ability to differentiate between tax policy and the opportunity to turf a deceptive political party through an election.

Such private conduct is embarassing to observe but a public display destroys the credibility of the perp's ability to reason like an adult.

Colin said...

Just in my parking and coffee break cost, I have seen an increase of $367 a year thanks to the HST, those costs kicked in the day the HST came into effect.

Anonymous said...

Wow, you're throwing away an awful lot of money on coffee and parking. If you can afford to spend that much, somehow I don't think a little extra tax is going to hurt you.

Gary H said...

I have sent the following opinion to Andrew Saxton:

Dear Mr. Saxton:

Re: Possible HST Loop-Hole

I am very concerned about a possible loop-hole in the Harmonized Sales Tax system.

Certain residents living in Canada have duel citizenships because they immigrated to Canada for a better life.
In order to maintain benefits in both countries, these people are keeping their duel citizenship status.
Therefore they can frequently travel back and forth.

They also keep their receipts for their accounting and bookkeeping reasons.

When they leave Canada with their foreign passports, foreign traveller can claim HST refunds from the Canada Customs Office upon leaving Canada provided they show proof that they have foreign citizenships and a foreign mailing adress, which they can, without government verification by Canadian Immigration or Customs.

Large sums of HST refunds are therefore going back into the hands of these residents or to their friends or relatives. If so, the natural-born Canadians who have no duels citizenship are bearing all of the tax burdened for large corporations and capitalistic minded frequent travelllers. When returning to Canada, as travellers, they show their Canadian Citizenship I.D.

I therefore believe that the Harmonized Sales Tax System is flawed, abused, and creates inflation at an exponential rate for small business and families, particularly on new home buyers and renovations.

In other words, it appears that all 3 levels of government have no strick control of expense spending when treating people on fixed income; so the HST is subjecting them to a lower standard of living; while the wealthy become wealthier by living on dividends and tax-exemptions. Limited Corporations received HST rebates on real estate investments and tax-payers receive very little.

I disagreed with spending HST dollars on military ships, planes, and war equipment instead of education and health care which helps us to be more employable.

Anonymous said...

Gary H

Is it a problem with the HST or immigration policy?

Throwing gobs of money at health care has proven to do very little.

Anonymous said...

Gary, what you are writing about is nothing to do with HST and everything to do with citizenship and immigration (as well as the ethics of those with dual citizenship).

Gary Hee said...

I appreciate your views. I am highlighting the loop-holes of the B.C. HST, which was not implemented with save-guards to protect against fraud and monetary abuse. If the fact of cross-border shopping is taken into consideration also, then Canada is losing a great amount of money out of the country daily, also we will experience a negative cash flow if, tourism is affected because of the high value of the Canadian dollar and the 12% sales tax. Consequently, jobs loss will be the result. I agree with someone's comment that Canada should develop its manufacturing sector but not subsidize it to the point of being like corporate welfare (namely, cash-rebates). On the issue of health care, we are all human-beings and mortals. We need to be healthy. Greed and selfishness is just a characteristic. All I asked is that we support each other to make Canada a better place instead of critizing others over trivial issues. Years ago, my father left his native country before communism took over. To-day, communist countries are a trading partner. At least I am not a terrorist. Thank you. Amen.

Anonymous said...

Show us some statistics supporting your claims, Gary!

Gary H. said...

B.C. cross-border shopping spikes after HST

Story / Article :
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/10/01/bc-hst-washington-retail.html

"...More than 600,000 British Columbians took their dollars to Whatcom County, Wash., in July, a 33 per cent increase over July 2009, according to the Whatcom County Chamber of Commerce...."


(as requested.)

Gary H said...

Vancouver Sun Cross Border Article:

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Cross+border+shoppers+terrorists/4801879/story.html

"... Although its characterization as the "world's longest undefended border" has always been more hyperbole than fact, most Canadians think nothing about crossing it to shop, visit friends, see the sights and even buy second homes. Last July, a peak travel month, Canadians -80 per cent of whom live within 100 kilometres of the border -made 3.8 million trips to the U.S., of which two million were same-day trips by car...."

(Newspaper Report as requested)

Anonymous said...

It's got nothing to do with the state of the dollar, eh?

G H said...

Very expensive to live in Vancouver; too much waste of taxation dollars.
e.g. Referendum cost of $9. million as preferred by the B.C. Liberal leader.

G H said...

Very expensive to live in Vancouver; too much waste of taxation dollars.
e.g. Referendum cost of $9. million as preferred by the B.C. Liberal leader.

Stew said...

I am trying to use that handy tool for conveyancing melbourne but I'm not sure the tax settings are updated. Where can I find one that is tailor-made for Oz? Cheers!

Geoff Granfield said...

Are you not really prepared as soon as tax time shows up? A little tax organization beforehand ought to help prevent the chaotic amassing of bills as well as make room for you to take benefit of lesser known tax breaks and tax reductions, since you also are going to have some more time to determine if you are eligible. Know more tax preparing ideas in this article! http://www.tax-defense-network-tax-tips.com/tax-planning/