Tuesday, December 17, 2013

Environmental Vandalism on Kilmer Creek?

For the past 10 years concerned District citizen Doug Carter has had a battle on his hands.  Doug likes to hike the Kilmer Creek Trail on Fromme Mountain, but the Trail suffers from severe erosion because someone keeps diverting the Creek in several places from its natural flow making it spill over the trail.  Doug is at a loss trying to figure out why someone keeps diverting the Creek nonetheless he keeps re-diverting it as much as possible and claims to have spent as much as 1500 hours of his own time doing so. Carter has alerted District Parks Staff as to the situation over the troublesome ten year period, but in that time has only managed to have staff visit the site on two occasions and recently Parks workers did re-divert the creek in two or three crucial areas. But it's still an erosion nightmare and the the Creek keeps being mysteriously diverted.   DNV Parks erected two signs in 2005 stating the applicable by-law which warns that disruption of the Creek is unlawful, but Carter says that a couple of visits by staff is inadequate and even with the posting of the by-law signs the Creek diversions continue. Carter wants the diversions to stop because it is destroying established hiking trails and costing DNV taxpayers thousands of dollars in trail remedial work in the way of the construction of board walk and time for District employees to, occasionally, pull these diversions. In an email response recently from Acting Parks Manager Susan Rogers to Mr. Carter, Ms. Rogers wrote, " In the next week, we will be installing an advisory sign at the diversion location, and request the public to contact Parks if they see anyone moving rocks and stones." Carter believes this is a start, but it is not getting to the root of the problem.


Anonymous said...

I find it disgusting that the DNV does not enforce its bylaws nearly enough. If they are not enforced, they will be ignored as they are here.

Mocrael said...

I found this post related to the Kilmer Creek vandalism on a ClubTread forum:

Kilmer creek vandalism - North Vancouver - Posted - 01/31/2005

"My dad is a frequent hiker of the Baden-Powell area between Mountain Hwy & Mosquito Creek and he noticed last week that several portions of Kilmer Creek were dammed off and rerouted into the surrounding area, including the bush. He undammed the area - this included moving several large rocks and mounds of dirt. The next day, he discovered that the damage had been redone. He called the District of North Vancouver Trails manager who met him at the area of destruction. They walked up the creek bed & found several other areas that had been rerouted, which they repaired. The trails manager stated that he would return the next day (Saturday) to monitor. We aren't sure what the purpose of this vandalism is, **but the landslide risk was increased** due to this person's action.

In this area, my dad ran into a man a few times in this area who we believe may be responsible for the destruction - he is in his early 40's, Scotch accent and brings his young son with him. He has stated that he is an expert in fish management & that the rerouting will help the fish (?????) If you see this destruction, please fix it or call the district of North Vancouver trails manager. Thanks"

Hope this info might help.

John Sharpe said...

Mr. Carter took me on a tour of (what was) the Kilmer Creek Trail yesterday and I was appalled by the erosion damage. He pointed out where district workers spent signifigant time re-diverting the Creek to its natural flow which he says will likely be diverted again at DNV taxpayers expense.
It seems Parks are just spinning their wheels using the same old approach that hasn't worked since they installed the first 2 signs around 2005.

Anonymous said...

Mountain biking is also allowed on this Kilmer Trail. That can't help the trail much, either.

Anonymous said...

"Out of sight, out of mind" seems to be the adage followed by the DNV and it isn't working.

I would encourage anyone who sees anything untoward in our forests to send a picture to John on this blog. Also, I know he would love some pictures of some of the good work being done in our forests. Unfortunately, I don't see too many of these pictures. Bring them on!

Barry Rueger said...

Yes dammit! The District should be front and centre and should be laying criminal charges against... um... SOMEONE!

Mocreal - can I assume that your dad got he Scottish guy's name and reported him to the appropriate officials?

I'm sure that if the District hired a handful of rent-a-cops to keep the area under surveillance for a couple of weeks everyone would be happy to see their tax dollars spent that way?

It is really unfair to blame the District for not policing every inch of every trail. It makes a lot more sense for trail users to take some responsibility.

Mocrael said...

I found the post on ClubTread, Barry. It was not written by me and posted back in 2005, but it proves this problem has been going on unsolved for a very long time.

I can assure you, signs don't work. And if DNV were serious about enforcing various environmental bylaws, they would have drained the NSMBA's pretty little bank account by now...

Anonymous said...

Trail users should definitely be vigilant, but what about some motion activated cameras at the trouble spots? Could provide some evidence and maybe the antics of a few Racoons.

Anonymous said...

Glad the mountain bikers aren't getting blamed for everything.

Anonymous said...

Good idea about the cameras. I don't think they cost too much these days. Let's do it. We could possibly use the images as they were used after the 2011 Stanley Cup Riot.

Eagle Selfie said...

Excellent idea about use of cameras, as long as they won't get stolen:

An eagle's eye: Cheeky bird records 90 minute selfie-video after it steals camera set up to record crocodiles

Lens recorded Australian north west desert as eagle went on 70-mile flight
Was installed to record fresh-water crocodiles but was taken within weeks
Shows flapping of bird's wings and moment eagle starts pecking at camera

December 3, 2013

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2517043/Birds-eye-view-Spectacular-footage-Australian-outback-captured-film-sea-eagle-steals-video-camera-set-record-crocodiles.html#ixzz2nrIySEd5

Anonymous said...

Let's get the cameras in the forest. At a cost of about $100 each they can be embedded in trees (no long-term damage to the trees) and replaced and then monitored.

The company doesn't guarantee the woodpeckers won't go after them.

How about 20 cameras throughout the DNV mountainbiking area?

Mocrael said...

We are also seeing so much more ongoing sanctioned (and unsanctioned) environmental vandalism in the woods via the NSMBA TAP and "Shore Corps", yet nobody blinks an eye!

NEW mountain bike trails cut (always NEW trails). Collectively, the NSMBA and their corporate cohorts are inflicting far more environmental damage to our forests than any one thing happening on Kilmer Creek. Where, then, is the outrage?

Meanwhile, after a memorandum of agreement was signed by DNV and NSMBA, for more mtber-style "trail care", the X-treme mtbers are singing their off-key tune, like everything else they do...These are, after all, DNV's classy wreckreational "stewards" of our woods, kiddies!
Merry Christmas & a Happy? New Year!

Mocrael said...

For some reason the vimeo linky doesn't work. Just copy and paste it. It works!

Anonymous said...

Mocreal, please start your own discussion on Mountain biking and stop hijacking this thread.

Anonymous said...

Mocreal is not hijacking this thread. She is a breath of fresh air.

Anonymous said...

No she isn't. She's a broken record. This thread is about re-routing a creek, not mountain biking. A topic that she has beaten to death here.

Anonymous said...

Rerouting creeks, rerouting trails, diverting drainage patterns. What is the difference? It all damages the forest one way or another. They all cause erosion, land slumps, and other nasty things. Everyone thinks they know what is best for the forest, and they know zip all! Leave it alone! That is mother nature's best advice.

Anonymous said...

Monica should be praised for her tenacity on this issue. The degradation of our forests at the hands of a small special-interest group is not going away and is not being seriously addressed, so how can you say it has been "beaten to death"?

Anonymous said...

The recreational impact on the forests around North Vancouver is nothing compared to the damages caused by other commercial interests such as forestry and hydro projects. At least the mountain bikers are doing something about maintaining the trails. What maintenance are the other groups (hikers, dog walkers, horseback riders, etc.) doing? Perhaps everyone should be forced out of the forests and indoors perched in front of TV's and video games. Would that make you happy? Or would you prefer everyone go use the forests in someone else's backyard so that you can have the North Shore all to yourselves?

Mocrael said...

Mountain biking trail "maintenance" is the biggest joke on us all, and DNV fell for the ruse, too. All I see is new mtb trails being cut for frivolous and convoluted reasons (Lower Griffen Climbing Trail, for instance)

The fact is mountain bikers riding those trail four seasons a year, indiscriminately, have eroded and degraded those trails beyond any kind of ability to maintenance or repair the trails. The NSMBA keep building NEW trail reroutes, bypasses, realignments, refittings, etc. All of it unsustainable, and amounting to DNV-"sanctioned" vandalism (shocking behaviour of soiling one's own nest, DNV), when you take in consideration what the NSMBA TAP and "Shore Corps" do to create the NEW "finished product". Don't keep whitewashing ecological vandalism, mtb trailbuilders.

The NSMBA may be able to fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but they can not fool all of the people all of the time.

Anonymous said...

So take your cause up with the District and, please, stop hijacking threads here with your peeves. Start your own thread to discuss your issues regarding the NSMBA.

Anonymous said...

As per usual, Monica has no idea what she is talking about. It must be a sad, lonely life, living it hating one group so vehemently.

I'm no spokesperson for the NSMBA but the Lower Griffin climbing trail was done to alleviate concerns over the original trail being too close to houses on the North of McNair and to make it more sustainable in the long run.

Also, you do realize that the forest on Fromme is not old growth? Have you seen photos of what it used to look like in the early 20th century?

Just wondering, how many hours a day do you spend trolling NSMB, clubtread, etc, trying to dig up information you can try to use in your anti-mountain bike crusade?

Anonymous said...

Check out Trevor Carolan's column in tomorrow's North Shore News. He recognizes the problems we are facing.

Anonymous said...

A) The whole north shore was clear cut 100 years ago.

B) As far a forest management goes its a mess. Plus the usage by the bike community is a tiny sliver of land on the whole of the North Shore.

C) Monica how many trees were destroyed building your house on the forest edge? Maybe tear down your house and replant? Set a good example.


Outdoor tourism is a huge part of the local economy.

Have a nice day