Monday, December 19, 2016

The Sun Answers All Your Traffic Questions!

Go ahead. Read the Sun story North Van the new Port Mann? North Shore bridges at 'tipping point' and pick you favorite "Say what?" passage.

Notably absent is any discussion of transit as a way to reduce traffic on bridges. But hey, Cristy Clark's PR officer wouldn't have approved that angle so the Sun couldn't print it.
Traffic is bad all over Metro Vancouver, but the worst spot to emerge in the last several years is the bridgehead at the Second Narrows in North Vancouver. 
Municipal leaders were told in 2015 that the North Shore’s woes coincided precisely with the expansion of the Port Mann Bridge to 10 lanes in 2012.
Also, Lotsa video, graphs, and pictures!


Anonymous said...

Ernie Crist predicted this mess 30 years ago. Idiots!

Anonymous said...

Barry, thank you for picking up on my reference to the Sun article at Anon 10:27 on the thread below.

I worry that the upshot of the article is that, apart from new bridges, third crossings, expansion of highways etc. and halting of development and density, for which it appears there is no appetite, we are hooped and can only expect things to get worse.

Short and sweet, that's it.


Anonymous said...

Ernie predicted that the community would grow and need to expand infrastructure? Impressive.

Anonymous said...

Yes, apparently Ernie was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Barry Rueger said...

In fact, Ernie Crist INVENTED sliced bread.
William Griffin invented the pop-up toaster.

Anonymous said...

OK, Barry you are really bugging me now. Many moons ago Councillor Ernie Crist spoke about the densification of the DNV. There was incredible corruption involved. Don Bell was mayor.

Look at what has happened.

Anonymous said...

It wasn't really a secret. All lower mainland munis published population projections looking forward many decades in the 1990's GVRD stats. DNV and WV had very muted increases. CNV had a huge increase (mainly multi-family). Things have gone ahead pretty much as predicted. Very widely known information that Ernie repeated.

Anonymous said...

"There was incredible corruption involved." How was our near lowest growth in the region over the last 30 years "incredible corruption"?

I know he has a few fans left, but Ernie Crist was a terrible politician IMHO. Yes, he generally was well read, and prepared for the meetings, and he certainly had clearly defined, articulated positions on the important things, but he was as two faced as they come, and he treated people around him so horribly that no one wanted to work with him. We used to chat at Ron Andrews where he would do his laps, but he was a completely different person in private vs in public.

When Mayor Janice Harris gave him his 30 year service award from the UBCM, he said, and I quote "I feel a bit like a jew being given an award by the Nazis." The polite crowd was horrified and the Mayor was brought to tears by his hate.

But go ahead, keep celebrating the guy.

Anonymous said...

Lets not even get in to when him and Doug Collins became defenders of free speech, but only seemed to be concerned with free speech when they were defending authors who had been shunned for writing books about how the holocaust was a hoax.

Nasty bunch.

Anonymous said...

If it wasn't such a secret about the idiocy of developing municipalities so quickly, then why did they forge on into an abyss of traffic, pollution, noise pollution, homelessness, and general lack of livability?

Anonymous said...

The fastest and largest development was during the post-war 50's and 60's. According to the last census data, the DNV grew less than the national average, while the city grew slightly more. Not sure where you're getting the idea that the region has developed quickly.

Anonymous said...

Check out this video:

"The late Ernie Crist Councillor for North Vancouver describes his life in Austria during the war . He talks about facing the firing squad in a totalitarian system that no-one should have to go through or live under. He then goes on to talk about issues and politics in North Vancouver. 1998"

(Nothing much has changed in the way local business is done in the District of North Vancouver since that interview)

Anonymous said...

Anon 10:34. Not sure if you misunderstood my post. The 1990's GVRD population projections implied low growth for DNV and WV. NVC projected stronger growth. That is pretty much what has happened.

I agree with you that the quality of life on the Shore has diminished with population growth but I don't think that the growth is limited to the N. Shore.

A more recent projection follows. Metro stats show N. Shore 2006 population was 179,900. They project that population to increase by 71,820 to 251,720 overall by 2041 (or 40%!). The breakdown population increase is CNV 47%, WV 40%, DNV 35%.

I think that the incremental local growth when added to the higher growth of Bowen, Lions Bay, Squamish, Garibaldi, Whister, Sunshine Coast, Vancouver Island plus the growth on the south side of the inlet has plugged up Hwy 1 and the 2 crossings.

These daily backups then impact the main Shore arterial roads and we are slowed up or worse.

The Sun article gives the impression that there is no planned resolution and we can expect more of the same and worse unless development and growth is widely curtailed and/or the crossings and highways are expanded. There is also the "give up the automobile" solution but this is unlikely for seniors, parents transporting children, those with groceries etc. so not a general resolve.

So, welcome to the new NS reality. Traffic jams from the Ironworker's Bridge to Westview, everyday starting at 2 pm and spilling into your neighbourhood.

Isn't growth great?

Anonymous said...

"I agree with you that the quality of life on the Shore has diminished with population growth but I don't think that the growth is limited to the N. Shore."

I have to say, the quality of life on the North Shore has never been higher despite the traffic woes. My family is safer, there are more/better services, the schools are top notch for my kids, there are more fitness choices than ever and the people are fitter than ever. Yes, it is expensive because of that high quality of life, and yes, there is traffic, largely because of how expensive it is.

Anonymous said...

I find reading this thread pathetic and boring. It's like you all know the facts, but really do nothing.

What Ernie Crist said all along was to appropriately plan communities, not just densify at random at the behest of the municipal "planning staff" whose mandate is to PLAN.

Said municipal planning staff and certain elected officials have always been in bed together with developers, who sometimes finance their municipal campaigns for re-election. DOH!

Anonymous said...

Anon 7:18. Are you kidding?

"My family is safer." Police, fire and ambulance response times have increased in concert with the population growth as those emergency resources have not kept up with staffing and they are stretched. The widespread availability of deadly drugs has never been higher.

"More/better services." See above. Hospital wait times regularly exceed 3 hrs - far longer than 1970 - 90. Public amenities from shopping and parkades to rec centres are overcrowded.

The public schools historically produced fine grads and still do.

Don't know if people are fitter or not but this is a personal choice and not entirely dependent on population growth. There were fit and unfit people in the past and there still are. Not a big quality of life point for me as I choose to be fit and that is under my control and independent of population.

And yes, the traffic is backed up the Cut to Lonsdale everyday by 2 pm.

In my opinion the quality of life has declined.

Anonymous said...

Anon 5:48pm, please show your sources that confirm "Police, fire and ambulance response times have increased in concert with the population growth as those emergency resources have not kept up with staffing and they are stretched." Drugs and drug use, presumably have no bearing on your quality of life, unless you are a user.

Again, your sources that confirm "Hospital wait times regularly exceed 3 hrs - far longer than 1970 - 90. Public amenities from shopping and parkades to rec centres are overcrowded."

These are the sorts of statements that need some actual support. Just saying them doesn't make them so. Please, cite your sources.

Anonymous said...

Anon 7:19

Instead of boring this blog with your consistent requests for sources of information, why don't you do the legwork and prove the commenters incorrect?

Anonymous said...

Because it's the responsibility of the person making these statements to actually be able to back them up. It's not on the reader to do his legwork for him. If you want to believe what a person writes as the gospel, that's your business. No wonder our society is becoming so ill-informed. The intellectual laziness is staggering.

Anonymous said...

Your "intellectual laziness" is staggering. Prove the commenters incorrect. Since when is it incumbent on commenters to follow the directives of anybody, much less a moron like yourself.

Anonymous said...

You never went to college, did you anon 1:23pm? It's standard format for a person to cite sources for statements. It's also standard in all levels of formal discussion and debate. If you aren't interested in your OPINION being challenged, get off the forum and let the adults speak. If you want to label anyone a moron, look in the mirror.

Hazen Colbert said...

Anon 6:28.

The irony of you asking for the scientific method to be adhered rigidly is that municipal decisions are, in fact, made entirely through anecdote. Let me provide two examples:

1. In October 2016, Councillor Mathew Bond submitted a resolution to council that bike lanes be built on Lynn Valley Road from Mollie Nye Way to Highway One. It passed. I walk, drive and sometimes, in fact, rarely,ride a bike (there is a much, much safer alternative which I will detail further along) very often on that stretch of road. There is near no bike use. Councillor Bond pulled a ratty blanket out of a carpet bag and presented it to council claiming that it was the only protection for his daughter has he (negligently ?) transports her by bike to daycare along Lynn Valley Road where there are near misses from drivers making right turns in front of him as he attempts to pass them on the right (his actions might well be a violation of the Motor Vehicle Act). A separate bike lane is called for he claimed. There is zero support or any evidence for such a bike lane. What is the downtrodden Councillor Bond to do without a bike lane? Well, he should do what EVERYONE else in Lynn Valley does going south or coming North on a bike toward and from Highway One including hundreds of students at Sutherland. Going south, divert at 27th to Whiteley Court, travel on the bike path through Kirkstone Park, over to Rufus and make his way to the Highway One overpass on wide roads and bike trails with little or no traffic! The cost to Mr. Bond of the diversion - about 30 seconds of time. Instead, based solely on Bond's anecdotal experience of being the only person in the DNV to show such poor judgement as to risk their daughter's safety to save 30 seconds of commute time, the entire entrance to Lynn Valley has been dug asunder and the forest canopy raped. One councillor who uses the road 3 days a week to save 30 seconds each way of time has cost the DNV $1.3 million.

2. In the fall of 2014 Councillor Doug Mackay-Dunn's wife asked him what he was doing about the traffic on Mount Seymour Parkway. So he put forward a resolution and for two years there was a moratorium on development in Seymour. Yep, lots of science there, compelling evidence and sources LOL

This is the process for decision making in the DNV. So please stop whining about the provision of sources etc. They are moot. They are not being used by DNV Council to make decisions.

Anonymous said...

My request has nothing to do with the scientific method, nor with how the District conducts its affairs, but on the simple fact that when a person is expressing an opinion, he should state as such. If he presents statements that suggest there have been studies from which he pulled numbers and statistics, then when questioned he should be prepared to cite sources for his information. This is basic stuff here. So, if one doesn't wish to be challenged, then be safe and be clear that what's being written is only opinion so that it can be given the appropriate value. Is that really overly onerous?

Anon Friday, December 30, 2016 5:48:00 pm made statements that suggest that he's pulling numbers out of his ass or that he may actually be referencing figures at his disposal. All I ask is that he share how he came up with his 'facts'.

Or is this a blog where anyone can say anything they want regardless of the facts? I suppose that's a politicians wet dream, eh?

Anonymous said...

Mr. Colbert, I would suggest you request a meeting with HUB ( to learn a bit more about the value of the bike lane you question and safe biking infrastructure in general. You appear to have formed an opinion around the notion that bikes aren't legally entitled to ride on the road that you suggest they should detour around. And before you suggest I have an entitled attitude, you might want to reflect upon exactly who is acting entitled.

Hazen Colbert said...

Anon 2:09

I support bike infrastructure. I also support the MVA that clearly states "no passing on the right." More importantly I support common sense. I may want to risk my life on my bike by acting in an irresponsible manner. I will not risk another person's life, particularly a little person for whom I hold responsibility.

The fastest way for me to get from my home to the intersection of Keith Road and Mountain Highway is to ride along 27th to Mountain Highway then ride Mountain Highway including at breakneck speed through Arbolynn to Keith Rd. I have NEVER taken that route. Instead I ride to the trails to the east of Sutherland High School and then down parallel to the cut. Yes it takes 3 minutes longer. It is however exponentially safer for both me and the cars on the road. Common sense and experience will always, always and always trump youth, expertise and skill.

Anonymous said...

The problem with common sense is that there's really no such thing. I prefer to ride the shortest distance between two points. If a road allows me to do that, I'll use it. I suspect that there are many commuters and pedestrian cyclists (yes that's a thing) who feel the same way. Why should I go out of my way because motorists can't be bothered to share the road? If a designated bike lane isn't possible, I'll ride the road and take the lane if I feel my safety is being compromised. And the law allows me to do that. The law doesn't allow motorists to run me or pedestrians down because we're an inconvenience. So again, go chat with HUB and get yourself educated. Since you said yourself that you rarely ride a bike, I'm not particularly willing to listen to what you have to say on this regard. Your bias as a car driver is evident.

Anonymous said...

As my friend would say, "having the law on your side really is moot when you can't walk for the rest of your life and the NSMBA is considering naming a new trail Crushed Skull after your daughter."

I assure you that I will yield and give your the lane, and with great notice and I will slow to a crawl to protect you. But I cannot guarantee what the driver behind me will do and my SUV takes up a hella lot of visibility.

Anonymous said...

The NSMBA has nothing to do with this discussion. This is about bicycles on public right of ways (roads). Thanks for yielding. If we had more cycling infrastructure, you wouldn't need to and traffic would be able to move along more freely. But until that day, I will do everything in my power to remind drivers that they don't own the roads and need to slow down, keep their eyes on the road and watch out for pedestrians and cyclists. I do this when I'm driving and expect the same from others.

Anonymous said...

Anon 8:56

Despite the massive amount of money spent on cycling infrastructure over the past 7 years, much of it meant to protect cyclists, the number of crashes involving cyclists has actually INCREASED!

See page 7

How can that be? It runs counter to EVERY argument made by HUB and by champions as Councilor Bond. And worse, the clear evidence is being ignored by decision makers who continue to spend substantive money on projects with no benefits.

I do agree the separating bikes and vehicles SHOULD reduce collisions. But clearly that is not happening. Doesn't it make sense to complete some analysis before proceeding with projects? That Lynn Valley Road fiasco demands consequences.

Anonymous said...

It's a little more nuanced than you've described it. A report which was presented to City of Vancouver "found that cyclists had the right-of-way in 93 per cent of vehicle-bicycle collisions where it could be determined." I don't have the ICBC numbers but they are referenced in this article by Metro:

The report to City of Vancouver with details of the accidents and how these crashes are actually going down, despite the rise in population:

So, I don't think HUB or other bicycling advocates are trying to misinform anybody. The studies are there, now it's up to municipalities to act. Or do we continue allowing people to use their automobiles to injure and kill pedestrians, cyclists and other automobile drivers?

Anonymous said...

I was interested in the assertions of a poster that emergency response times have increased with densification and a subsequent poster's opinion that the original poster "may be pulling figures out of his ass." The following is a paper authored by police, fire and emergency response agencies that sheds light.

City of North Vancouver Official Community Plan, Public Safety in the City of North Vancouver

An efficient transportation network is critical from a public safety perspective in terms of the ability of first responders being able to quickly respond to calls for assistance. An efficient network also minimizes vehicle/pedestrian interaction, and the number of accidents stemming from those interactions.
As traffic increases other efficiencies in our transportation network may be required, such as traffic signal pre-emption for emergency responders and public transit vehicles.


Densification will have an impact on emergency response activities. In addition to the challenges that the fixed structures or buildings will present, densification will also increase the number of incidents proportionately of all incident types associated with people (i.e., motor vehicle incidents, medical emergency incidents, and fire incidents calls).

Transportation, Mobility and Access

Traffic congestion increases response times. It is suggested that a long term plan be provided to address this issue.

It appears that in the context of increasing densification the emergency agencies project increased traffic congestion and traffic congestion increases emergency response times. Looks like the poster had a point.

Anonymous said...

It is too bad that you, and Ontario transplant, have such a negative opinion about the District of North Vancouver. Feel free to leave.

Anonymous said...

It is so bad that out of the 17,130 detached homes, 27 have gone up for sale in the last month... 27!!

Face it, you can argue that the quality of life has gone down all you want, but the metrics that matter show that DNV residents are extremely happy and are not willing to sell despite the ridiculously high valuations. Yes, we have problems, but overwhelmingly, people are happier now than they were thirty years ago.

Anonymous said...

The United Nations measures happiness using the following metrics:

GDP per capita.
Life expectancy.
Perceived national corruption.
Freedom to make life choices.
Generosity of fellow citizens.
Having someone to rely on in times of trouble.

None of the above are related to traffic and certainly not to bike lanes etc lol.

Please note that number 3 measures "national corruption" not "municipal corruption."

Based on the UN metrics, I would surmise that DNV residents are just as happy as most in the Lower Mainland, and across Canada DESPITE the traffic problems :-)

Anonymous said...

Anon 5:07. After the real estate crash in the early 1980's we had months when almost no homes were sold. It didn't mean that everyone was happier than now. it meant that it was a slow real estate market.

By your metrics, last year when homes were selling like crazy, it must have meant that North Vancouverites were miserable.

Anonymous said...

I see you have conflated sold vs. for sale to suit your needs, not surprising. In the 1980's tons were put up for sale but only a few sold even at rock bottom prices. Here we are seeing sky high prices and it still isn't attracting people to even market their houses.

Anonymous said...

Actually I'm not conflating anything. I bought and sold in N. Van in the depths of the 1982 real estate crash. Had to put the house on the market to do so and buy one on the market. Hardly any listings as at that time people had stopped putting their houses up for sale. The home prices had often fallen below outstanding mortgage and the loss of equity was too great. Actually you provided a red herring, not surprising. "In the 1980's tons were put up for sale..." I referenced, "after the real estate crash in the 1980's" - not the whole decade.

My point stills stands. The changing state of the real estate market doesn't equal the happiness of residents.

Anonymous said...

Real estate markets can certainly be an indicator of troubles in a community, ignoring it is foolish.

I realize you are trying to set the stage for another election run in 2018, and making it seem like the quality of life here is terrible and you are going to fix it, but the reality is the quality of life here is near the highest in the world. No amount of gutter sniping is going to reverse that.

Most livable community, of the most liveable region, of the most liveable country.

Instead, you should focus on making our municipality more accountable, and present a stronger voice at the regional table, perhaps throw your ideas for making traffic flow better now, not 20 years from now, and if you have time tackle the under discussed issues such as RCMP vs Municipal Force, what you would do about Fire Department arbitration, bylaw adjudication courts, or perhaps staff retention under the auspices of narrow regional bargaining bands and competing with high revenue municipalities.

Or you could just continue to fling pooh.

Anonymous said...


Is there a freeze, a timed out or screener on this thread? I have made 3 (respectful - non personal) posts that do not appear. This is a test.

Anonymous said...

About study shows a 7 per cent higher expectation of getting Alzheimers if you live within 50 metres of major traffic pollution.

If you don't believe and want verification of this comment, please check CBC, CTV, Global, etc.

Barry Rueger said...

@Anon 11:58 Is there a freeze, a timed out or screener on this thread? I have made 3 (respectful - non personal) posts that do not appear. This is a test.

Nope. The only "screening is after the fact, watching for really objectionable stuff. Tell which comments didn't appear and I'll dig into the back end and see why.

Email me:

Anonymous said...

I think the whole computer system is flawed lately perhaps because of the weather and its ramifications with electricity, etc. My Skype is acting strangely.

Albeit my comments have all been published on this blog.

Anonymous said...

Weather effects the internet?

Anonymous said...

Blame the sunspots!

Anonymous said...

Obviously some people never watched the movie Independence Day.

Anonymous said...

That was non-fiction then, was it?

Anonymous said...

"new study shows a 7 per cent higher expectation of getting Alzheimers if you live within 50 metres of major traffic pollution."

So then I should get a break on my taxes because I live on a major bus route rather than a 40% assessment increase???

In my dreams!